Episode #951
When was the last time you got truly curious about your wife? Not just about what she’s doing, but who she’s becoming?
In this episode, Doug Holt and TPM advisor Christopher Hansen tackle a common challenge: emotional distance in marriage. Many men unknowingly stop seeing their wives as evolving individuals, leading to stagnation in communication and intimacy.
We answer real questions from TPM listeners, including:
- How to give your wife space without triggering her fear of abandonment
- Simple ways to break through emotional walls and spark meaningful conversations
- The importance of reinforcing emotional safety (hint: you need to say it more than once)
- Easy, actionable strategies to keep curiosity alive in your marriage
If your relationship feels a little off, this episode is for you. Tune in and start reconnecting today.
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Transcription
Doug Holt 0:00
When I coach the men, one thing that’s very common is that the guys think of their wives as the person they married, not the person they’ve become. It’s human nature. So they forget that their wife has changed—her beliefs, maybe her interests have probably changed since you married her. A lot of people just forget that consciously, and they stop getting curious about their partner. They start making assumptions that they know them to that core level, and we forget to get excited about getting to know that person. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of The TPM Show. Today, I’m joined by Chris. Christopher is one of our advisors here at TPM. So, what’s an advisor? An advisor is somebody that you actually get in contact with when you’re inquiring about one of our programs—whether it be The Activation Method for relationships, where we help guys save their marriages and their families, or The Activation Method for self, when you’re really getting unstuck and getting clear on life. If you have questions about the program or are seeing what’s the right fit, Christopher is one of the leads, and his job is to give insights and advice to the men. Now, today, we are taking a culmination of your questions—the viewers’ questions—and we’re gonna try our best to answer a few of those today and in the next couple of episodes. Chris, thanks for being here, man.
Chris 1:31
Yeah, thanks for having me, Doug. Very much appreciate it. Do we want to just jump right in?
Doug Holt 1:36
Let’s jump right in.
Chris 1:37
Cool. So, this question comes from Thomas from the Facebook group, and it’s an interesting one. I’m curious about this. “Any tips on balancing giving space with a partner who has a fear of abandonment? My partner’s love language is to receive words of affirmation and acts of service. When she needs space, these words and actions trigger her. Giving her the space also triggers her fear of abandonment, so I feel damned if I do, damned if I don’t. The waters eventually calm, and the words and actions are eventually appreciated a day or two later, but the in-between time is very tough to navigate.”
Doug Holt 2:23
So this is actually pretty common, and it goes both ways, right? Different attachment styles. So I also see this with a lot of the men, right? In other words, when their wife pulls away or their partner pulls away, the men have the fear of abandonment. And look, we all need space from time to time. You and I were kind of talking about this earlier in the kitchen. We’re at TPM, right? TPM Ranch right now. So in Thomas’s situation, where he knows his wife needs space, but she’s going to freak out if he gives it to her, and then she’s like, “Oh no, he’s going to leave,” the way you do that is you call it out.
So if I’m in that situation that Thomas is in, I’m going to provide the space intentionally. And I have some of the guys actually go up to their wives if they know their wife needs space in incremental times—like they know she’s going to pull away because it’s too much for her to handle emotionally. As an example, which happens for all of us, especially introverts, then provide that space ahead of time. Like if you’re planning a trip, you say, “Hey, babe, I know we’re going to be in Mexico for seven days. Why don’t you go ahead and book a spa day on day three? You know, that way you have some time to yourself, recharge your batteries.” And that’s a great way of doing it.
In Thomas’s case, if he were to do something like that, it would look like this: “Hey, babe, we’re going to Mexico for a few days. I want to make sure you have the space to recharge your batteries. Just know that I want to be with you, and I’m not going anywhere. I also want to make sure that you have the best version of yourself, and I have the best version of myself coming through.” And really, the key here for Thomas is being proactive in leading. That’s what most men forget to do because they get too cautious leading their partner and letting them know, “Hey, I’m not going anywhere.”
Now, just like in business, as a business owner, you have to state your mission statement and your goals 20 times before your team hears it. I even mentioned this—we just got back from Breckenridge, the retreat, and my wife and I presented The Activated Couple, which is the course that we’re coming out with. And I told the guys, “Guys, show of hands, how many of you have mission statements and values for your business, goals, and objectives?” 100% of the hands go up. We had like 40-some guys there. Then I said, “Okay, great, show of hands. How many of you guys have these for your family? How many of you guys have ingrained this into your family—so they know what your values are, they know the direction the family is supposed to be going in?” One or two hands.
Because we often think, “If I say it once, Chris, because I know—hey, if I go, ‘Hey, Chris, if you ever need anything, just give me a call,’ and you’re like, ‘Yeah, Doug, cool.'” If I never say that to you again, your story might be, “I don’t want to bother Doug,” so you just won’t do it. Now, me, I might think, “Well, I’ve told Chris once. He agreed, so he just knows he can call me anytime.” It doesn’t work that way.
So in Thomas’s case, his wife’s fear of abandonment is something that she’s going to need to be reassured about way more times than Thomas is going to think is necessary. So if I’m Thomas, I’m going to say, “Hey, babe, I want to let you know I want to give you some space so you have some time to yourself to grow—whatever it is you’re going to do. Just want to let you know I’m not going anywhere, and I want to be here with you.” So that’s two reinforcements. “I want to be with you. There’s nobody else I want to be with.” That’s number three.
Now, he might be thinking, “Cool, I’ve over-communicated this thing.” Now, he’s got to double down, maybe three more times. “I just want to make sure you understand that this space is for you to recharge. I love you. I’m not going anywhere, so don’t worry about me, just take care of you.” And then he can walk away from that space.
Now, while he’s giving her space, he may also reassure her via text message, email, or leave little notes throughout the house. Again, he’s reinforcing that pattern. Because our fears—right? Fear: false evidence appearing real, or false evidence about reality, whichever acronym you like—it’s false, and it’s that little voice in the back of our head that comes out for seemingly no reason. And so we have to constantly reinforce the pattern or the communication that we actually want that person to hear because it’s not natural for them to hear it, right? They’re fighting a misperception. And so that’s why Thomas is going to have to keep doing that, and that’s going to allow him to give her the space or take his own space—either way—and make sure that she’s reassured.
Chris 7:00
Yeah, absolutely. And sending those reassuring messages—it’s a technique that I’ve used a lot, of just not checking in. You know, you don’t come from a checking-in energy, but just a reassurance of just a—
Doug Holt 7:15
Hey guys, sorry to interrupt this episode. But the reality is, if you are watching or listening to this right now, then you are looking to better yourself, and I applaud you. You’re one of my people, and I want to give you the opportunity to take massive action. So if you haven’t joined The Activation Method yet—it’s our flagship program—do what thousands of other businessmen just like you have done and take action. Be one of the one-percenters that actually does the work and takes action. There’ll be a link in the description that’ll take you right to a page that’ll just give you more information. There is no obligation—just go check it out and see if it’s a good fit for you. All right, let’s get back to this episode.
Chris 7:59
You know, I use emojis. My wife knows what those emojis mean, but it is that reassurance. It keeps her in that state of connectivity even when I’m not there.
Doug Holt 8:12
I do it too. I send that little kissing emoji or whatever it is to my wife when I’m away in the morning, and I especially do it at night, right? Because I know for my wife, you know, because I travel a lot, I’m in a lot of very exotic places, doing a lot of great things, and usually, there’s an attractive energy about that, right? So I could see if I’m my wife, being worried—where’s my husband? He’s traveling all over the world. He’s doing these really exciting things. Are there women involved? What’s going on? So I do that as just kind of a check-in, just reassuring her, “Hey, I’m thinking of you,” and that’s all she wants to know. She just wants to know that she’s actually cared about, that she’s actually part of my journey, and that she’s important to me.
Chris 8:56
Yeah, 100%. We want to jump to another?
Doug Holt 9:00
Let’s do it. Let’s jump to one more.
Chris 9:03
Okay, this is a good one. What are some good ice-breaking conversation topics to try and start non-mundane conversations with an emotionally distant and emotionally closed-off spouse? I’m trying to break down the walls, and I’m working on rebuilding emotional safety with my wife.
Doug Holt 9:21
This is great for so many reasons. And instead of just giving a list of questions to ask, one of the things that I encourage all the guys to do is to get more curious about their partner. I’m a guy running a business, so I have it on my project management software, which is Teamwork, that we use in the company. I have it set to check—I think I said every two weeks to a month—to check what books my wife is reading, right? So I actually go and ask her about it. I don’t go snooping through her stuff or anything, and that gives me stimulating questions to ask. I’ll use ChatGPT or something to summarize the book because I’m probably not interested in that subject—maybe I am—and that gives me something that I know is interesting to her for me to talk about with her. That breaks the mundane.
In fact, the one I always like to bring up because I think it’s fun is there’s a group of women here in this area that get together for the women’s book club. And their husbands—I always joke about it because, you know, they’re drinking wine, they’re having fun. Well, I noticed three books in a row they were reading, and the titles don’t seem like it, but when you look at the substance of the book, it’s basically erotica, right? Oh, really? They’re like, you know, women’s fantasy books, if you will, but they’re also very prestigious. They’re well-written, they’re very mature for the audience, but they’re love stories. It’s not really erotica, but they’re like the new versions of those romance novels you used to see in the grocery store, right?
So I started noticing they were reading those, and I thought, “Ah, that’s interesting. What are these women thinking about? Talking about? Whoo, what are the storylines? And can I bring that into my marriage? Can I turn that into some fun for Erin and me—my wife and me?” And that brings really interesting conversations up that can turn into intimacy, that can turn into a lot of things.
My wife also coaches women. She teaches women how to get into their femininity, so I’ll ask her questions about those. “Hey, what are you learning?” So I can pass it on to the guys. So I’m showing curiosity.
We have put together a cheat sheet on how to plan the perfect date night. If someone listening to us can email VIP@thepowerfulman.com, just type in “date night,” and one of the other advisors will send you this PDF for free. In there, I think we have 20 icebreaker questions. That’s why I’m bringing that up. So there are 20 of those during the date night, and if you have to go to the bathroom, then pull them up on your phone, you know, and come back to the table with three or four of them. They’re very open-ended questions that should serve as a dialogue, which is not mundane, and you can actually talk to somebody and get to know them.
And I’ll leave it on this, Chris—when I coach the men, and I’ve had the privilege of coaching thousands at this point, one thing that’s very common is that the guys think of their wives as the person they married, not the person they’ve become. It’s human nature. So they forget that their wife has changed her beliefs—maybe not saying religious beliefs per se, but maybe—but she’s probably changed some of her values. Not the core values, but things that are important to her. Her interests have probably changed. When you married her, she was probably interested in one thing. Fast forward 5, 10, 20 years, those interests have changed, just as yours have.
And a lot of people just forget that consciously. They stop getting curious about their partner, and they start making assumptions that they know them to that core level. And, I mean, you and I know this—with our partners, right? They’re always changing. There are new interests coming in, and we forget to get excited about getting to know that person.
And that’s why the date night is so important, but also having those questions is important. So I’m going to recommend all the guys take advantage of this free resource. We made it for some of our guys, but we’re happy to give it out to you. It’s How to Plan the Perfect Date Night. Again, just email VIP@thepowerfulman.com, ask for the Date Night Ebook, and we’ll send it over to you. Use those 20 icebreaker questions to bring that out of your partner and start having great conversations.
Chris 13:41
Yeah, I agree. I think the cheat sheet is a fantastic resource and very easy for us to get into somebody’s hands. And just to bring it back to curiosity—I mean, to me, that transcends the relationship. That’s life. Start to come at reality and at life from a place of curiosity, and your world will beautifully unfold in front of you, as will your connection to your wife. I love that.
Doug Holt 14:08
100%. It opens things up. I had one more thing that my wife and I use a lot. There are tons of manufacturers that have these question cards, right? Table Topics was one. I had The Book of Questions in college, and I would decide between The Book of Questions and The Book of Questions: Love and Sex, these two books, and I would bring them out. We had groups of people over in college, and they’d be great conversation starters. You’d be drinking some beers—college age—but a great way to have fun, lighthearted conversations about relationships and intimacy with a group of women too.
And then Table Topics—so that’s my family. They have Table Topics for kids because the same thing could be applied to your children, right? So you have those resources. Brené Brown recently put out a book of questions, like a card deck of questions. My wife bought that for me, so I take that as a pretty good hint that she wants to go through those. There are tons of them out there, so you can get these cards as well.
What we used to do, though we don’t do it right now, is put them on our kitchen table—or dining room table, excuse me. So during dinner or something like that, we could open the question deck, pull one card (kid-appropriate, of course, since my kids are young), and then ask the question around the table. And it’s funny—sometimes it really surprises you what people say and where they’re coming from, and then that question usually sparks another question of curiosity.
Chris 15:30
Yep, absolutely. And I have the same. I’ve got multiple different companies that have those cards—for friendships, for adults, for kids, for adult-adult, right? If you want to get into intimacy. And they’re fantastic because it’s easy. You know, it just sits on the counter—you open it up.
Doug Holt 15:51
It’s not me asking you the question. It’s the cards that are asking the question. Therefore, it’s safe.
Chris 15:58
Exactly. It creates that safe environment for both people to be open.
Doug Holt 15:59
Yeah, I love that.
Chris 16:00
Awesome, man. Well, thanks, as always, for being here. I love these questions.
Gentlemen, if you have questions, go ahead and email those in—also to VIP@thepowerfulman.com. Chris and the team really put these together, and we’re going to try our best to answer as many questions as we possibly can.
Well, they’re fun for me because I don’t do any prep for these. So Chris just fires them at me, and you’re getting it directly from me. Apologies about the cold, but I’m doing my best to work through it.
But as I always say, guys, in the moment of insight, take massive action. It’s not just a tagline—I really want you guys to do that and just get something out of this, out of this thing we call life. You deserve more than average.
Remember, I’m always in your corner. See you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
