Episode #908
Have you ever felt like you’re carrying the weight of the world alone?
In this episode, we tackle a subject many avoid but desperately need to discuss—suicide and mental health in men. Joined by three powerful guests, we explore the unspoken struggles that so many men face, including feelings of shame, isolation, and hopelessness.
You’ll hear raw, personal stories from men who’ve been to the edge and found a way back. We uncover why so many feel they have no way out, and more importantly, how to take the first steps toward healing.
In this episode:
- The silent burden of shame and why it’s so destructive.
- How isolation fuels the cycle of hopelessness.
- Real stories of men who reached out—and changed their lives.
- Practical steps to find light in your darkest moments.
Whether you’re in that place or know someone who might be, this conversation is a reminder: you’re not alone, and there’s always a way forward.
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Transcription
Jared 0:00
Particularly, we’ve lost men in our movement here a while back, and man, that hit home. Recently, we had another man whose wife committed suicide. You looked at the situation and wondered, “How could that happen?” But then when I reflect on my own life, I know exactly how that could happen.
Tim Matthews 0:35
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of The Powerful Man Show. Today we are going to take the show in a slightly different direction. We have three amazing guests here. The topic today, as you’ve probably guessed, given the fact you’ve clicked on this, is suicide, which, frankly, is very close to all of us. For myself, I, unfortunately, have had three cousins—trying to think if it’s more, which is crazy. I can’t believe I’m thinking that, but three cousins have committed suicide. One of them was a woman, a mother who left her two young boys behind, which is even rarer. But you wanted to bring this up. Do you want to share why?
Grant 1:29
Yeah, actually, I did. I wanted to, if I’m being completely honest with myself. That’s why I’m here. TPM saved my life. I’ve been doing a lot of work and have come to a really good place in my life, but not too long ago, I found my 16-year-old daughter in the corner of her room, shaking, holding her puppy after a tremendous domestic dispute. There was no physical activity, but some things that were said, and the tone and the level of volume, really, really upset my daughter. At 16, it was not something I could live with. As my daughter and my wife exited our home and went on a road trip somewhere, suicide came into my mind.
The problem is, it didn’t just come into my mind. I actually got the gun out of the closet, loaded the clip, and had it sitting there. It was out of fear—fear of being alone. So many of us have used that as a threat in our relationships, and I didn’t even realize I was doing it over the years. Subconsciously, I was probably saying it, but I wouldn’t recognize it. Previous to that, eight years ago, my best friend committed suicide. To this day, I am still upset with him. I found a way to forgive him for it, but the things I said about him when he did that after the fact just didn’t sit well with me.
The fact that I found myself in that moment—a lot of us go through tough things, but that’s not the answer, you know? Thank God I picked up the phone, Arthur. I mean, not only did you and TPM save my life, but you did. I was, what, 14 minutes late to our phone call? But you waited. I don’t know if I would have gotten much further past that if you hadn’t.
You and I had that conversation at one of our retreats. Yeah, you keep me up at night. It scares me.
Jared 3:43
So I’ll share my story. Why not? One of my mentors told me a long time ago, “Your friends are going to start dying when you’re 40. Don’t be one of them.” I took that as, “Oh, get in shape. Don’t be fat. Take care of your heart. Take care of your health.” But what he was referring to was that suicide is the number one killer in men our age.
In my life, I’ve struggled with depression, suicidal tendencies, and things like that. About a year and a month ago, that part of me died. That part of me died through a culmination of a lot of work, a lot of emotional struggles, and a breakthrough. I can proudly and honestly look at you today and say I haven’t had a suicidal thought in over a year.
I think that’s because I can finally look in the mirror and tell you that I love myself. A lot of men—out of pride or shame—don’t have that. Reflecting on the previous episode about the mask men wear, they keep that mask on for so long that when they take it off, they don’t know who they truly are.
When I took it off, I finally realized I’m a good dude. I deserve to live. I deserve to be happy, loved, and enjoy this wonderful life I’ve built. Why, in God’s name, would I ever think about doing that?
Everyone always says, “That’s the most selfish thing you could do. Why would you do that to your kids?” Well, guess what? You shouldn’t just want to live for your kids. You shouldn’t just want to live for your wife. You should want to live for yourself and fulfill the true intention God put you on this earth for. For me, that part of me is gone.
I’ve developed a lot of empathy towards others because of it. Particularly, we’ve lost men in our movement a while back, and that hit home. Recently, we had another man whose wife committed suicide.
You look at the situation and wonder, “How could that happen?” But when I reflect on my own life, I know exactly how that could happen.
Tim Matthews 6:08
So how does it happen? Let’s dive into that. Because guys listening to this who are in this spot—and I think you know us talking about, “Well, live. Don’t just live for your kids or your wife. Live for yourself”—they’re just not going to get that right now. It’s going to be too dark. It’s probably going to feel a bit hopeless.
There might even be guys who have been listening to the show for months, for years, and just haven’t seen any traction for whatever reason. So let’s speak to the guys in that place, because the reality is, some of the guys in that place are the same guys walking into the boardroom tomorrow, running companies, leading organizations, and no one will have a clue how they feel or what they’re considering.
So what is that guy going through?
Jared 6:58
Always feeling like, one, I would never be enough if the world saw me for who I truly was.
Tim Matthews 7:07
And by the way, you don’t need to talk about this if you don’t want to.
Jared 7:12
No, I’m open to it. Because if it helps save one life, to me, it’s worth it. Right? I’ve got nothing to prove, nothing to gain. I know Arthur has his own experience—it’s in his book.
But the fact of the matter is, I think you’re lying to yourself if you haven’t struggled as a man at some point in life, wondering if the world would be better without you.
For me, I finally came to the realization that my problems can be used to make me stronger and that…
Tim Matthews 7:42
Let’s not talk about the realization yet, because, again, I just want to keep bringing it back to this guy, right? Not that the realization isn’t important, because I think it is.
But again, this person who’s in this spot has all these people in his ear, giving him advice, telling him how great he is, and giving him all these reasons to live—materially, on paper, right? Yet the story in his head and where he is at are very different from that.
I think one of the biggest things—transparently, I’ve never felt that way. I’ve felt down and very insecure at times, but I’ve worked with a lot of men who have, and I’ve been around it a lot, whether within my family or otherwise.
I think one of the biggest factors, from what I hear, is shame. I think it’s important to differentiate between guilt and shame. Guilt is, “Something I did was wrong.” Shame is, “I am wrong.”
So whether it’s how you’ve been treating your wife, your daughter—it’s a cycle. You’re making promises and trying your best, but no matter how much willpower you muster up, you just break those promises again and again. You end up hurting the people you love again and again.
That’s the story of shame, right? “I’m wrong. I’m bad. There’s something inherently wrong with me. No matter how much willpower I apply, no matter how much I intend to love them with everything I’ve got, I just can’t seem to make it work.”
There must be something wrong with me. I think that’s a piece of it—shame.
I think another piece is the shame around losing it all—like for some guys, not only do they marry the wife, they also marry the image that is portrayed, shared by being with their wife, right? They’re married to the image. They’re married to projecting a certain persona in the community of who they are.
They’re so obsessed with keeping up that appearance and that facade because they believe that’s the thing that gives them the significance and connection—that’s why people like them. So when that gets threatened and might be taken away from them—divorce, separation, whatever—the story becomes, “What will they think of me? I’m going to lose it all.”
It still ties back to shame: “I am wrong. I am bad. There is something wrong with me. I’m going to be outcasted. I’m going to lose everybody. I’m going to be on my own.”
Jared 10:53
The world’s going to see me for my flaws, not my strengths.
Arthur 10:58
Yeah. It was slightly different for me because it wasn’t about that. I got to that stage through illness, which led me to be isolated, okay?
I think a lot of guys feel isolated. I completely agree.
For me, it wasn’t about letting people down. It was more like, “I can’t go on.”
In my mind, I’d exhausted all the possibilities of being helped. With this illness that I picked up—what was it? Well, I think I just wore my body down.
You know, I was like 24. I was in a great career. It was the 80s, 90s—should I say I’m aging myself? Yeah, unnecessarily.
Jared 11:46
Wishful thinking, yeah.
Arthur 11:48
But no, we were working—you know, the typical working hard, playing hard. Financial industry. We’d work under stress during the day, then go out drinking, partying—the works. Not eating properly.
We did that for a year. Then I got food poisoning. Obviously, my system just gave out. From that point on, for the next eight months, I couldn’t eat anything without getting sick.
So after seeing various doctors and specialists, no one could sort me out. And obviously, I became isolated. Guys didn’t want to hang out with me because I couldn’t drink anymore. So now I’m stuck at home, can’t show up to work properly, can’t go out.
My family was like a million miles away, and I wouldn’t call them anyway because I’d worry them too much. So in my case, I was isolated.
Tim Matthews 12:37
I think they’re all isolated anyway, but you end up there—emotionally, mentally. Shame, depression—it all starts with isolation.
Jared 12:41
Absolutely. Mental health—it all starts with isolation. But where…
Arthur 12:46
It got to was, there’s no hope, right? “I’m helpless. There’s nothing—I can’t do anything here.” That was the mindset I got into, and it’s the mindset most guys get into at that stage. “I can’t see a way out.”
But then what happens is the pain and the suffering become too much for you to see any other option.
Grant 13:10
The cure hurts more than the pain of the disease.
Tim Matthews 13:14
That’s one thing I’d love the outcome of this episode to be—how can we inject some hope into the situation of the guy listening to this? Not by validating, not by telling him, “You can do this,” or all the stuff he’s already heard.
I don’t know the answer. I’m just throwing it on the table.
Jared 13:35
The pressure of the pain is sometimes what pushes people to that edge. But at the end of the day, they’re choosing to take a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Yeah, but the hope for me lies in love—for yourself and, if you’re a believer, for your Creator.
Grant 13:51
I’d like to bring that back—it’s a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Yes, and anybody out there, myself included—everybody listening—no matter how tough it feels right now, it truly is a temporary problem.
Everything’s gray, everything’s cloudy. There’s a lot of noise going on right now. You’re feeling so distraught.
I know—I was there. There’s no light at the end of the tunnel. There’s no hope. “I’m not going to be able to do this on my own,” you think.
But you are.
Doug Holt 14:25
Hey guys, sorry to interrupt this episode, but the reality is, if you are watching or listening to this right now, then you are looking to better yourself, and I applaud you.
You’re one of my people, and I want to give you the opportunity to take massive action.
If you haven’t joined The Activation Method yet, it’s our flagship program. Do what thousands of other businessmen, just like you, have done—take action.
Be one of the one-percenters who actually does the work. There’s a link in the description that will take you right to a page that gives you more information.
There’s no obligation. Just go check it out and see if it’s a good fit for you.
All right, let’s get back to this episode.
Grant 15:09
There are TPM resources there for you. Just pick up the phone, just type an email.
What you don’t realize right now is there’s so much help for you. You just have to reach out and grab it.
For me, hindsight is always 20/20. I look back now at the place you guys have brought me—this journey—it’s phenomenal.
My God, the amount of happiness I get to share—not even just in TPM but with my wife, my family, reconnecting with people I’ve wronged over the years—and going, “Wow.”
There’s so much.
Just take a pause for the cause. Take a moment, get a little bit of clarity, and understand that there’s no coming back. So just take your mind and put it in a different place.
Tim Matthews 16:00
What would have had to happen for you in order for you to have reached out for help sooner?
Grant 16:07
I would have had to listen instead of being stubborn.
For anybody to get to that place, they’re a pretty strong-willed person. That’s their nature.
I’m no expert, trust me, but it takes a lot of strong will to ignore that little voice you should be paying attention to—and to reach out sooner.
Arthur 16:29
I think the key point, at least for me, was that I thought there was no hope. Yeah, right? And so it was like, “Well, there’s no hope, so what’s the point of carrying on?”
I think if there’s one thing anyone out there can take on board, it’s this: there is always one more step you can take. Even if you can’t see it, there is one more step. As you said, there’s light at the end of the tunnel. You can’t see it, but there’s always one more step you can take. There’s always something more. There is hope—put it that way.
And if you can’t see it, ask somebody. They’ll show it to you.
Tim Matthews 17:07
The story you’re telling yourself—it’s never as bad as the reality. Yes, the story you’re telling yourself in that situation… like I said, from speaking and working with thousands of men in similar spots, the story they’re telling themselves is never as bad—never as bad.
Jared 17:27
If you’re at rock bottom, where do you go from there? You can only go up.
As cliché as this sounds, I always quote 50 Cent: “Sunny days wouldn’t be special if it wasn’t for rain. Joy wouldn’t feel good if it wasn’t for pain.”
I truly feel that in those moments of darkness, there can be light. And in that lightness, there can be greatness.
Tim Matthews 17:49
I think you have to—this is going to sound a bit harsh—but I think, to your point, you have to fight for the story a bit.
If you want to stare down that darkness—there are some biochemical things that can be going on, I get that. But you have to try. You have to try to ignore the good that’s happening in your life, because there will be good that’s happening.
There will be good somewhere. But to not see it, you have to really try hard not to see it. You have to really focus on what’s wrong.
That whole idea of shame and the story you’re telling yourself—the reality is not as bad.
Those who matter… what’s that saying? Those that…
Jared 18:36
Those?
Tim Matthews 18:36
Those that… I forgot it. Why is that? Why are you…
Speaker 1 18:42
Thinking—”Those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.”
Tim Matthews 18:53
Google it real quick.
Jared 18:55
You can laugh through it, right?
In the darkness, a lot of people think, “Oh, I’m at the end of my rope. I can’t laugh. I can’t see hope. I can’t see anything,” because they’re so focused on ending it or whatever that darkness is.
For me, hitting that rock bottom and bouncing off it has been one of the most transformational parts of my life. Through that comes true greatness, true connection, and the best version of yourself.
I’ve seen it happen with the guys. I’ve seen it happen with my friends who’ve been there. They think all hope is lost. They think, “My wife’s gone. My kids are gone. I’ve lost my job. My business is over. I have nothing to live for.”
But they always bounce back, as long as they keep fighting for it.
When you give up, it’s a wrap.
And I hate to say this, but everyone’s going to forget about you pretty quickly, and your problems will just go away with you.
But if you stick around, you can change the world.
As bold and as emboldened as that sounds, you don’t know what the rest of your story is going to be. You don’t know whose life you can help save or change.
For me, eliminating that possibility—eliminating that idea—has been the most empowering thing I’ve ever done in my life.
Tim Matthews 20:11
Yeah, it’s not—it’s not a solution. No. It’s not. No way out.
The saying is, “Those who matter don’t mind, and those who mind don’t matter.”
The point is, you’re telling yourself this story, and there’s a lot of shame around it, right? Isolation, all the stuff that goes with it.
And that story—it’s nowhere near reality. That story is nowhere near as true as the shame that stacks with it.
The people who really care about you are going to care a hell of a lot.
And there’s so much pain that gets left behind when people exercise that option.
What I’ve heard a lot from being around this is, “Why didn’t they speak to me?”
There’s nothing they could have said that would have made me turn my back on them, right?
“Why didn’t they just speak? Why didn’t I know? I didn’t know.”
And all the confusion, frustration, sadness, and anger…
What model does it set as well?
I think of the amazing two young boys now. This was 10 years ago now, that their mother committed suicide. They’re 19 now—17 and 19. They were very young when it happened.
Grant 21:36
I’d like to touch on that, because two things—one is, my best friend at the time was on a trip with me to Costa Rica, just two months before. I knew he was going through tough times, but we were working through it together.
And exactly what you said—why didn’t he just call me? I would have, you know, gotten on a plane in a moment and held him. It leaves so many people with unanswered questions.
So it’s not the answer.
Number two—we kind of skimmed over it, but you’re not alone. It never gets talked about publicly, but when I came into TPM, I realized I’m not the only one who’s had these thoughts and gotten to that point. There are so many people, so many really strong men, who get there.
And they take that step—they step backward and look for help. They don’t step forward and finish what they came out to do. They actually pause and think about it.
You’re not alone. I know society as a whole says, “Oh, don’t talk about it.” With all due respect—talk about it as much as you have to.
Even if there’s the slightest inclination, talk about it. Because you just said something, Tim, that triggered me—like, had anybody who was having a challenge actually asked somebody they love, and who loves them, they’d help you through it.
But you feel shame that you even thought about it. Then you’re only hurting yourself—and the others around you.
Tim Matthews 23:11
Caring too much about the opinions of people who really don’t matter—exactly.
Like, what will they think of me if I say this? Or what will they think of me if my wife leaves? Or what will they think of me if…?
I think for one of the guys—or, well, I’ll speak in generalities. People on the verge of losing everything—their business or otherwise—that can be a trigger, right?
Or when people have everything they’ve ever wanted, that can be a trigger too.
And oftentimes—and I know I keep going back to shame—I know it’s not all about shame, I get it. Isolation is a massive factor, and I completely agree with that.
But just going back to the shame piece—again, “Those who matter don’t mind, and those who mind don’t matter.”
There is no shame that exists with the people closest to you.
If you were to just share, “Hey, I feel terrible, I feel awful,” whatever it may be—even if you’ve just sold your business for 50-odd million, or even if you have everything you’ve ever wanted—all it takes is a conversation.
Because what typically doesn’t happen is honesty.
What I’ve seen is men bottling it up, retreating, withdrawing, isolating themselves, telling themselves a story.
And as a result, the shame stacks up.
At the same time, they’re trying to keep up appearances—acting like everything’s okay.
When, in the first place, if they had just said, “Hey, I’m struggling,” everyone would say, “I’ve got you. I’ve been there.”
And the reality is, when you say to someone, “I’m struggling,” they’ll more than likely say, “I’ve been struggling too.”
By you being honest, it gives them permission to do the same. And that’s where the connection is.
Really, a big piece of someone wanting to commit suicide is the lack of connection.
Arthur 25:20
You mentioned earlier that someone in this position doesn’t see the solutions, right? That’s the problem—they can’t figure their way out.
But the thing you have to understand is that your current mindset—you can’t sort the problems from your current mindset.
But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a solution. It’s just that you can’t see it right now.
So just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
By reaching out to people and speaking to them, they can help elevate your awareness—your consciousness—so that you can see the solutions that are there but are currently hidden by your situation, your depression, your whatever.
So once again, I say to you—there is hope. There is always hope. There’s always a next step. You just can’t see it right now.
So reach out to someone who can help you see it, and then you can take that first step to get out of the hole you’re in.
Grant 26:25
Arthur, if you’re listening to the show right now, you’ve already taken the first step.
Subconsciously, you saw the title of the show and thought, “I want to hear what’s going on.”
Your subconscious is telling you, “I need to make that call. I need to ask for some help.”
Jared 26:42
It doesn’t have to—this doesn’t… Honestly, this is bigger than TPM, right?
It doesn’t have to be, “Pick up the phone and call TPM.”
In the same breath—call someone. Call anyone.
Grant 26:56
Mental health—somebody, anybody.
It doesn’t have to be family. It doesn’t have to be a loved one. Somebody you know will…
Jared 27:04
…listen to you.
Mental health and men—it’s this, again—there’s shame around mental health and men.
Because I think a lot of people have this persona, this expectation, that, “Oh, if I have a mental health problem, I’m weak. I’m weak. I should be able to be a man. I should be able to get over these things. My dad was strong. He didn’t commit suicide.”
Blah, blah, blah.
They keep telling themselves, “I can push through anything,” and at the end of the day, nothing changes if nothing changes.
If you’re going to stay stuck in that rut and stay stuck with those thoughts that are just going to drown you, someday, treading water in the middle of the ocean, you’re going to drown.
You’ve got to start swimming. You’ve got to start going one way or the other. You’ve got to choose a path, stick to it, and see it through.
Not for your kids, not for your wife, not for your company—but for yourself.
For me, as selfish as that sounds, those things finally disappeared when I said, “You know what? Enough’s enough. I’m not living out my fullest life. I’m not living my fullest potential.
I’m not going to let my past define my future anymore. I’m not going to let the things that I’m not in control of control me.
I’m going to let that be. It is what it is. It will not define what will be.”
And yeah, if anybody’s proof that there’s light on the other side of the darkness—it’s me.
Tim Matthews 28:33
So let’s wrap this up. One final piece of advice.
Arthur 28:43
A term we often use at The Powerful Man is “lone wolfing it.” That’s when you go off on your own, trying to solve your problems by yourself.
Don’t lone wolf it. You won’t be able to solve your problems on your own.
Find someone who cares about you. Reach out to them. Include other people. Let them support you and help you.
Lone wolfing—it just doesn’t work. So don’t be a lone wolf.
Jared 29:11
I think starting everything with gratitude—being grateful for what you have and not reflecting on what you don’t have or what you’ll lose—is a huge step.
I’m grateful for you, Tim Matthews. You saved my life that day.
I don’t talk about it a lot—I’m not going to talk about it here—but I wouldn’t be here right now if it wasn’t for you.
And I’ve got an amazing family, amazing kids, an amazing life, an amazing wife.
I love life.
And I was that guy who came that close.
There’s another story to be written. You’ve just got to want to write it.
Grant 29:50
I didn’t realize how strong I was because I thought I was one of the strongest men in the world—in business and family—until I had to recognize it and reach out and ask for help.
And that was the strongest thing I could have ever done for myself.
Thank you for taking that call.
Tim Matthews 30:13
It’s not as bad as you think.
Yeah, it just isn’t as bad as you think.
A problem shared is a problem halved.
It’s not as bad as you think—just share it.
So, like Dougie Fresh always says, “At the moment of insight, take massive action.”
We’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
