Episode #852
Are you feeling stuck in your business growth journey? Tune in to this episode of The Powerful Man Podcast as Doug Holt and Brad Holt dive into the essential strategies for scaling your business through effective systems and processes.
In this episode, Doug and Brad discuss how business leaders can transition from working tirelessly in their business to working strategically on their business. They share their expertise in implementing robust systems that not only streamline operations but also free up valuable time, allowing entrepreneurs to focus on what truly matters.
You’ll discover:
- The importance of having a business audit and how it can identify gaps and opportunities for growth.
- The concept of a business dashboard and how it provides a 30,000-foot view of your operations.
- Practical steps to align your team with your business vision and ensure everyone is rowing in the same direction.
- Real-life success stories of men who have doubled their business growth by applying these principles.
Whether you’re a seasoned business owner or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you scale your business efficiently and effectively. Join us and learn how to master your business systems for sustained growth and success.
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Transcription
Brad Holt 0:00
That’s probably the reason they had a relationship problem. Yep, they were working 60 hours a week. Yeah, if any work 60 hours a week, they’re exhausted. Yes, I give everything the business. 60 hours is a lot of work. And I come home and my family gets my leftovers. Yep. And the irony of it is, is we can actually work less, get better results to have more time with their family.
Doug Holt 0:33
Gentlemen, do you ever wonder why your business might be stalling or not growing as fast as it could? Well, today on the TPM show, Brad and I are going to talk about the importance of having a business system and how that business system can actually go in parallel with your life. Brad, thanks for being here. Love it, man. So it’s really interesting. So obviously, a lot of the men that come into our world come in for one or two reasons, they’re a little stuck in their life, not sure what to do next, or they’re having a problem with their marriage and looking to fix it. But what a lot of the guys don’t know is that we’ve done a lot of business consulting, we’ve run a lot of companies ourselves. So we actually apply systems within the business for these men, as well as in their personal lives.
Brad Holt 1:15
As you know, this is one of our passions. When we get together, your wife would always say, hey, why don’t you guys go do this? Now, we love talking about this, because this is fun for us. So I love growing men, but also love growing businesses. And if you don’t have systems, you really tying one hand and behind your back. And most of the men in the movement are the leaders. Yes, their executives, the biggest challenge they have is the running organization. And if you don’t have systems in place, how do the other people in the organization know what to do on a day to day basis, they don’t, they’re living at the whims of their leader. So
Doug Holt 1:52
to give the guys context, there’s five territories we focus on TPM. There’s the self health, wealth, relationships, and business businesses one of the five. So after men typically go through an introductory program, we call The Activation Method, right? When they graduate that many men have such success, they choose to stay on with us, and do one of our mastermind groups. And in those mastermind groups, we audit all five of those territories. And one of the territories we audit is the business territory. And God, obviously, the guys have to want this. And when we do that, it is shocking to me, at least, at how men had been successful in their business by just grinding it out, you know, getting things done, but haven’t put what you and I or a lot of people might think of the foundational aspects of their business in place, so that their business can work for them. And they don’t have to work as hard in their business.
Brad Holt 2:45
Now looking at it the way you just said that set that up, is that’s probably the reason they had a relationship problem. Yep, they were working 60 hours a week, if they didn’t work 60 hours a week, they’re exhausted, yes, that my family is important to me. I give everything the business. 60 hours is a lot of work. And I come home and my family gets my leftovers. Yep. And the irony of it is, is we can actually work less, get better results to have more time with our family systems.
Doug Holt 3:15
100%. And that’s saying that you know, you give your business the best your family gets the rest. And when men really sit down and think about that, that’s the opposite of what they really want. Because they built the business to support their family and the lifestyle, their family wants the lifestyle they want to give their family. This is akin to the way that we actually work with the guys. Right? We were talking about this offline. But the guys when we we give a guy a goal, we’re actually looking at quarters, years months, we’re back in what are the we call them Keystone Habits, but they can also be almost like OKRs, or KPIs. And I’m gonna be thrown around a lot of acronyms here, guys, don’t worry about them. But what are the markers to know that you’re making progress? How do you know that you’re getting to where you want to go? Another example I’ll throw out there, Brad. And just to to use this as context for businesses, how do you like a guy was talking, he’s like, hey, I want to lose 60 pounds. That’s great. That’s a huge, that’s a big goal. Support them. But how do we know along that journey, that we’re progressing in the proper way and that the methodology we’ve chosen to lose that 60 pounds? is the right one for us? Yeah, so
Brad Holt 4:23
for goals, you have to make them smart, specific, why where when how you’re going to have to have a measurable how you’re gonna measure it on a daily basis and in business that might be a scorecard might be a KPI or OKR. And then Is it attainable? You got to have a plan. Okay, and the great thing about having a plan is you’re gonna find you have a lot of holes. And then is it relevant or some people call it realistic? I might want to do it because I’m whimsical. Am I willing to like smoking? I want to stop. Do I really want to stop smoking? I want to stop drinking. Do I really or do I have the capabilities? I want to do business in Russia? Or Brad, do you speak Russian? Okay, I either gotta buy some Russian language or go to school. Yeah. And then a tank opponent, making sure it’s smart, applying somebody similar to your business, where do you want to go? And then reengineering backwards and putting systems in place to get you there. And as we say at TPM to say, Heck, yeah, that’s a good thing. It aligns with my vision, or hell no gets get away from it, because it doesn’t, because we want to be having a system in place where it can really monitor this, not just on a tenure basis, but all the way back down to a daily basis.
Doug Holt 5:38
Yeah, absolutely. And then we look at the business, I mean, you and I have gone into many companies, before TPM and inside TPM, and help them fix and set up the systems but only just systems, kind of the way the company needs to operate a holistically. And naturally, when we’re having conversations, so I do a lot of the one on one coaching with guys guys invest a lot of time and capital to work one on one. And as we’re working through, let’s just say the relationships. Obviously, guys, businessman, we love talking about business, the business comes up and we start talking about that what’s going on in the business? Where Where, where are we struggling? And how do we know you have a dashboard that we can just take a quick look at? I can’t tell you how often when I asked to see a guy’s dashboard, they look at me like a deer in headlights. What do you mean? Like, well, how do you know the constraints? How do you know what’s causing the leaks in your business? Or what’s going on? Or where the problems are? How do you know if your marketing is working or not? Again, these men are very successful, very smart. And they’ve been able to push through the barriers, but they don’t have the foundations in place for the marketing, sales functions, or whatever else it is, unless that was their specialty, that specialty being there a great salesperson who built a business, their sales functions are probably good, but they might be missing the operations, HR, finance, legal, whatever else it may be.
Brad Holt 6:56
Yeah, and it’s gonna really free up the owner, whatever their strength is that leader, one might be sales, one would be marketing could be engineering, all those are great skills to have. But as you grow a business, you gotta have people behind you. Yep. How does that knowledge that’s in your head? get passed down? How does it also give you the data, you need to maybe one of your weaknesses, because the worst part would be is, if I joined Morgan Stanley, I don’t get to choose what software I want to use, I don’t get to choose how meetings are run, they have systems. Now, smaller companies, we don’t always have that we kind of wing it, can we read this book, we read that book, we heard this, we have this experience. The problem is my marketing guy was trained this way, my sales guy was trained that way, my Operations Guide now have like multiple systems together, and they’re not community. And what we really want is alignment. Your system is supposed to be aligned to your vision, and to getting the whole team daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, annually, rowing in the same direction.
Doug Holt 8:01
That’s exactly it. Right. And we talked about this offline too, is the communication, making sure that everybody is speaking the same language. So you know, if you’re looking at, hey, these are our goals for the company, or these are our KPIs, or these are the OKRs or whatever you want to look at, everybody has to be talking the same language, they understand each other. And you had a great story right? Before you were talking about before you stepped in as CEO with TPM, you are consulting with another company, do you mind sharing a little bit of
Brad Holt 8:28
that? Yeah, this is a $20 million company made a very simple product, I want to give that away, okay. And it started off with the sister running, the brother came in, and was really innovative and charismatic and really grew the company. Other key family members and other key business members would really react to that leader, but they kind of started spinning at 21, they couldn’t really get any traction, couldn’t get any growth to go farther. So we just started putting in systems in place. So they could do it. And all of a sudden, the brother in law goes, Oh, if you’re gonna put systems in place, and there’s going to be accountability, okay, I’m in and the leader was going like, why were you in earlier because, well, you would change your mind every couple of months. And it felt like we’re all over the place. So there’s no systems in place, I didn’t feel comfortable. So I just gonna wait until you tell me what to do. And that really limits the leader. But once you put the systems in place, all of a sudden you have all of your team members, working in alignment and knowing that Okay, great, we’re all talking the same language.
Doug Holt 9:37
And there’s so many other things that you can look at when you’re looking at putting a business model in place. There’s, there’s a lot of these off the shelf business models you can buy or look at, but the key is the leaders you have to pick one, run with it or modify it for your own needs to have it and the thing that you and I see and I’ve been guilty of it too, is we like we love learning. Right? And when you go into a business and you’re as a consultant That’s right, you find out quickly that the owners read in all kinds of books and you get the flavor of the month, like, this month, it’s, we’re focusing on people why? Well, he’s reading books about people that you know, in the next month, it’s going to be a totally different market. And that can really cause a lot of fear, and can really worry a lot of people on your team, because they don’t know what to expect. And it feels as if the company is unstable at that point. Yeah,
Brad Holt 10:27
and something even in TPM. When we design things as a leadership team. We have to make sure that we train people, people say, How much should you train, you can never train enough. And the problem is, is no guaranteed return on investment training is just an expense. But if it’s not in the culture of a company, you have to say at least seven times, because if I just come in and say, Doug, here’s this new policy, based on some book I read, you go, Oh, that sounds great, Brad, let’s do it. But since you’re not living in that part of the world, six months later, I asked you about a gun, I don’t remember that at all. You got to train them and train them and put systems in place. So that in my seat as a CEO, I get the data I need to help make decisions. If I don’t have systems in place, how do I actually make good decisions? That’s
Doug Holt 11:17
a great question. Right. And I mean, we’re here at the TPM Ranch together. We have our whole leadership team flying in today, some are here now. And we’re going to have our quarterly leadership meeting. We had it online, but we’re doing it in person. And something I learned in probably my late 20s, I started businesses in my early 20s, my late 20s, I remember having a meeting with my team at that time, and going, Okay, here’s the direction we’re going, you know, and here’s the vision. And I remember, so let’s fast forward six months later, I’ll go Hey, guys, you know, how are things going, and they literally were like, Oh, I didn’t know we were still doing that, like, oh, I never changed it. And the point being I learned there is you have to reiterate the vision, because as kind of alpha businessmen, we go, this is the direction and then we put our heads down and get it done. We just start working on it. Whereas the other people in the organization may not work that way, right? Otherwise, they probably have their own business. And so you need to reiterate what we’re doing the direction we’re going the agreements and a consistent basis. And having a dashboard or regular meeting pulse is a great way of doing that. Yeah,
Brad Holt 12:24
it’s critical. And because once you get the systems in place, that’s great. Once you’re all speaking the same language, that’s great. But then it’s you’re really running a business to this, this framework justice to make it more efficient. And then you can make your own. But if as long as you train it, when it goes through the company, everyone’s bought in. And then there’s the accountability. Now I got what you started the whole conversation as a dashboard. Yep, in my seat, in my position, I could go like, Okay, this is going well, just like when I’m driving a car, I know these key things, there’s hundreds of things going on in my car. But I really need to focus on these five key things. And that’s my dashboard. And it also helps us have conversations, because you run our marketing, I go like what’s going on here, I see marketing is off. And we have, and we have a systematic way of doing it. We meet on a weekly basis, we talk about what’s working, what’s not working, what we’re going to try what we’re not going to try, and we have it it’s coming from data. So it’s not like Doug feels YouTube is the way to go. It’s got what does the data tell us or Brad has heard this from people, if the data doesn’t lie,
Doug Holt 13:29
the data doesn’t lie. And even for creatives, it’s a great place to be, you know, the talk, but there’s three types of entrepreneurs that are out there, but one of them is somebody who starts off as a creative and that’s learn to systematize. The point is, is making sure you have a system for men that are in the TPM community, you know, talk to your coach guys, and talk to them about getting your business audited, right. Something that we do for the managers will go in and do a basic audit, and just look at things from the from the top down. As a movement, we’ve been able to double in size year over year and people like that that’s an unheard of you can’t do that. Maybe a five 10% growth. But we double year over a year, if not more. And the reason is, is most of our team, our business leaders, their business leaders who are mission driven, and decide, hey, look, I want to take my skill sets of growing businesses, but I also want to help people, I want to leave a legacy of making this world a better place. And so we can look at the playing field and often were brought in myself looking at scaling, but also marketing. Those are my two strengths. And so how do you go in and I work with the clients on that where we’ll bring Tim on the sales side, we’ll bring you on the operation side. And all of us can talk about all of these subjects. But when we go in, we can really do a deep dive into the business and help the men out and go okay, there’s some gaps here. Because we’re not in we’re also at the Vantage the 30,000 foot view.
Brad Holt 14:53
It’s funny you’re saying that one of the things that TPM one of our blessings is is all We’re coaches, we’re business owners, business leaders. Yep. Which is so impressive. And they really can impact them in because helping them personally, or in their relationships is really powerful to affect them. But also these guys are business owners, they can help in the business side. Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt this episode.
Doug Holt 15:19
But the reality is, if you are watching or listening to this right now, then you are looking to better yourself, and I applaud you, you’re one of my people. And I want to give you the opportunity of taking massive action. So if you haven’t joined The Activation Method, yet, it’s our flagship program, do what 1000s of other businessmen just like you have done and take action. Be one of the one percenters that actually does the work and takes action, there’ll be a link in the description that will take you right to a page, they’ll just give you more information, there is no obligation, just go check it out and see if it’s a good fit for you. Alright, let’s get back to this episode.
Brad Holt 15:59
Now is the CEO of TPM. It’s also a curse, they got a crapload of ideas. What about this? What about this? Yeah, if we don’t have systems in place to analyze that data, see the lines were going, I would be reacting to everything. Yep. And that would mean we would do nothing well, and I think really our growth is by having systems in place to be able to measure things, we’re able to say, That’s a great idea. But we’re not going to chase that shiny object. Now we’re going to put that over here, because it doesn’t align with where we’re going today. And that helps us keep him focused. And by being focused, it helps our movement grow. We
Doug Holt 16:39
also have a process, Brad, which I think is important for the guys listening because to me, I’ve run a lot of businesses at this point started them or come in, is I want to capture that knowledge from the team. And people are hired, they’re gonna have great ideas that are the boots on the ground. I also want them just like I want my wife to feel seen and heard and desired, if you will, in a different way, of course, I want them to feel seen her desire now. So we have a mechanism a TPM to encourage people to share their ideas, a method to capture all those ideas and get them written down. So in such a way that they know that their voice is being heard, commented on, then as the leadership team, we have a methodology to distill those at the right time. So we don’t react, because a lot of these ideas sound great, like, Oh, this is fantastic. Let’s, let’s change the website to pink or whatever it may be, then we’ve got to go. Okay, that’s a great idea. Let’s shelf it, discuss it, prioritize the conversations around it. And then we can decide which ones we want to move forward with. Yeah.
Brad Holt 17:41
And by having a system, it really does make my job a lot easier. I feel like I’m, you know, Captain negative, nope, nope. But because I have a system and we have to distill things. I can say, well, that’s great. However, we’re really focusing on this today. And maybe we’ll bring this up. But also, a lot of his ideas are why we’re great. Yeah, because even though I feel like I have to say no a lot to really great ideas. We get a lot of great ideas of where the growth comes from, from our team members, from the men in the movement, who have really just added so much value. And they align with where we’re going today. And we just add it. And that’s where the growth comes from.
Doug Holt 18:22
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I was having, again, the dinner with these guys a week, a couple days ago, actually having an amazing dinner, glass of wine with a gentleman sitting to my left, and we were talking about and he wanted to he’s like, hey, I want to help you guys reach more men, this has changed my life, it’s changed my business, changed my relationship with my children. I want to give this to more men, I see more men around me now my eyes are open. And let’s talk about scaling. You know, and we had a great conversation and a lot of amazing ideas. And I wrote them down, I wrote them down and put them into what we will talk about at leadership meeting at the appropriate time and say, hey, does this align with our function? does it align with our manpower? Do we need more people? Do we not need more people? And but this all comes down, I think Brad to the concept that a lot of men don’t truly have which was, which is a dashboard, or, and then some way of distilling what to focus on because our time is limited. We can’t focus on everything. Yep. And again, most of most of the men that I talk to, you know, we’ve had 1000s of business owners come through TPM. They’re very strong in a few key areas. And those are the areas that they’re the most interested in. Right. But they don’t have a way like like you use the car, but I’ll use that as a plane. You have a you’re flying a plane, that’s your business and you have a cockpit, right and then there you have all these dials to look at which ones do you choose to look at? And how do you know if any of them are going off course
Brad Holt 19:53
to see what he did there? He wanted to bring it back to all about him. Yeah, have Tim and I had a great conversation about this. And I had an idea that I was passionate about, like you were saying. And Tim was, that’s a great idea. But is it aligned with our vision? And I go, like, that’s we had a system in place, and I go like that. You’re right, it would help bring me back. Because it was something I really am passionate about. It really falls into my strengths. But it isn’t really what’s good for the movement right now. And he disabled since we have systems in place, he was able to easily bring me back. I love it. I think it’s great. I love your passion. He says, Is it really aligned with where we’re going right now? I go. And I he didn’t have to give his comment. By just asking me that question. I go, Yeah, you’re right. Thanks. And it got me back on path.
Doug Holt 20:46
Well, it’s also I love that. And it’s also an agreed upon filter. Right? So the leadership team has to have an agreed upon filter. And that goes with communication and distilling. Again, it’s a system. I think a lot of people think of systems as just checklists. They’re not that can be in a lot of ways. But you need to have an operating system, if you will, within the business that everybody’s agreed upon. Everybody understands. So new hires, understand what the vernacular is within the company. But what are the goals are what we’re doing what we’re driving towards. So for us our mission at TPM, for this year, our goal is to save 10,000 children. And so if anything, if I come up there and go, Hey, guys, we we need a new, I don’t know, I’m gonna make something up. We need to put a pool in at The Ranch, right? And people say, okay, that’s, that’s interesting, you know, and I have, you always tell me, I have a strong personality. And I could just drive that home. Except, you could just ask, Hey, Doug, how does that affect saving 10,000? Children? Just let me know. And we’re happy to do it. I may not have an answer for that, or I may. But it gives us that thought process that greed upon thought process to prevent other whimsical things were coming in.
Brad Holt 22:00
It definitely helps me with the owners of the company. Yep. That’s great. But how does it align to this? Yep. And it’s it is that agreed upon? It’s the culture. Yeah, systems aren’t just using Google Docs versus using Microsoft, no, those are just profit, us having processes. That is what we call, followed by all Yep. And it’s just like, if I joined a big company, I don’t get to choose the terms I use. So is bringing us back to these great men we lead. If you don’t have systems in place throughout your company that everyone buys into, you’re really limiting your growth, because it’s really lies only on you. Yep, and everyone. And although you have got you to a place, that’s usually where most founders plateau, they just stop right there, because it’s them. But if they build systems around them, where they get all these smart people feeding into it, growing the company, not only do we do that at TPM, we also bring in all these great men their information, which helps really grow, grow the movement. Yeah, it
Doug Holt 23:09
does. And what makes me think about this brand is the two biggest reasons people have problems and relationships are unmet expectations, and poor communication. And this happens in your business, too. Yep. Right? When the expectations aren’t standardized, or the expectations aren’t communicated, or the communications bad, people get upset and you lose key players, you’ll lose the A players or to your point in the previous story, you’ll have people on your payroll that are just winging it, right. They’re just kind of getting by until things get clear. And I think most people want to work, they want to do a good job, you know, bell shaped curve, and all. There are some lazy people out there, but most people want to be it’s got to create the right environment. This also dovetails into your family life, you have a common language within your family, or have you set expectations? Or are you making assumptions that, hey, because the way I grew up, that my wife is supposed to take out the trash? Maybe she grew up where she was supposed to pick up? The husband does? And that that creates unmet expectations? And what’s the language that you have? You have goals? Do you have a vision for your family? Do you have a mission statement for your family? You know, do you set quarterly dreams and things of that nature? Do you hold, you know, family meetings, date nights, things that are important to keep that family structure alive and growing?
Brad Holt 24:25
Now, I love it. And it’s something you have to do on a consistent basis, because it goes back to that example, read a book change again. And none of us are smart enough to read 20 books and know how they overlap. Yep. And next thing you know is you got your whole team going this way, then go on that way. You just got to really spend that front time unclarified where you want to go. I mean, spend a lot of time there. Work your way back what I want to be in five years, three years, one year, what am I gonna do this next quarter? And then when you go to meetings on a weekly basis, you have systems in place. Very similar. We have the men go through and the men in The Brotherhood we have and The Activation Method, we have the chart of intention live in which we call the coil score. It’s, hey, that’s their KPIs. And it’s their scorecard. How am I doing towards the goals that I put for myself? Same with a company
Doug Holt 25:21
was the coach is also our dashboard. Yeah, right. So if I noticed that Brad is going to be focusing on his health and I’m Brad’s coaching this analogy. And I noticed that you keep consistently not hitting your health goal, right, your health score is low, then I know there’s an issue. Right. I know I can look at this dashboard. Brad’s chart of intentional living, we call it the coil for short. So when I can look at that coil score and go, Hmm, Brad’s consistently, he’s crushing him business crushing in his marriage. But the health one, he’s getting three out of five or whatever else the score may be. Now I know, huh, there’s an issue here. I can then drill down on the health numbers to find out exactly what’s going on. Yeah.
Brad Holt 26:00
Is it a knowledge issue? Okay, gotta train them? Is it a motivation issue? So that you can get down to the real root cause everything? Absolutely.
Doug Holt 26:10
I love this conversation. Let’s give the guys one each one takeaway they could do right now. And the moment of insight, what could they do to put something like this in place?
Brad Holt 26:18
Well, first thing is you better have a detailed vision that not only you know, but your whole team knows and talks about on a regular basis? And does that what is your company’s core values? Do they also believe that, and I think the biggest thing I see the guys is, do we live this on a weekly, monthly, quarterly and annual basis where it’s really part of your culture. If it’s not, then you it’s not a cultural thing. That’s just a wish.
Doug Holt 26:49
I love it. It’s very true. The thing that I’ll leave the guys with Brad is audit your business. Either audit yourself or bring somebody else in who’s not stuck in the weeds. To just look at it, get yourself a 30,000 foot view. If you’re involved in the TPM community, again, all your coaches guys, they’re all former business owners, a lot of us have spent decades doing business consulting or running companies, have your coach help you out with that it’s not a problem already in the community, you’re not in the community and what we invite you to join or at least apply to come in. But have somebody give you that overview, look at your systems, and to say, hey, you know, I noticed that you don’t have a system in marketing or sales or operations or your mission statement doesn’t make any sense to me? Is it too wordy? That way you get that kind of? You’re getting a game plan, if anything else, and you can see where the major gaps are, what I find is just by closing a few of those gaps, guys can easily increase their business and their revenue in a very short time. And it’s
Brad Holt 27:48
not an easy thing to do. I’m going to shout out to owl on our sales team. He said something to myself, and you and Tim said, Hey, what about doing an audit? And he was talking about how he went through audits? Yeah. Because it’s not comfortable that someone’s coming in and telling you what you’re not doing right? And you want to do everything right. But if you really want to grow your business, and audit is a great thing to help you fill the gaps.
Doug Holt 28:10
I love it. I absolutely love it. And yes out. Thank you very much an amazing, amazing guy. And I think we should have audits regularly. Now with TPM, we have a system to audit or to self audit, every quarter, every department audits itself, and goes through a very specific checklist of things they need to audit in order to pass inspection, if you will. But it defies gaps, right and gaps in any department. And there always will be gaps. That’s the thing. And the thing of the difference is figuring out where those gaps are. plug him as quick as you can, then you can innovate on top of that. That’s right. Awesome. Brad, always great having that conversation. I know you and I could talk about this for another four or five hours. I
Brad Holt 28:47
love this stuff.
Doug Holt 28:48
So why so why, gentlemen, as we always say in the moment of insight, take massive action. What insight did you get? Have you had your businesses audited? Have you audited yourself? Have you looked at the 30,000 foot view of each department? Do departments know what their goals are? Every day, week, month, quarter year, the five year plan? Do they know where they’re going? So everybody can be rowing in the same direction? Do they have a common language or people just miss speaking or misunderstanding each other and working in silos and not actually communicating properly? These things are not only going to cost you energy, but it’s going to cost you money if you don’t fix it right away. And hey, we know it. Most you guys are here for your relationships. And a lot of times the relationships and the marriage and the business are tied hand in hand. So make sure you’re looking at this and get those insights and move forward. We’ll see you next time on the TPM show.
