How To Know Whether To Save Your Marriage

Episode #304

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Episode Transcript

Doug Holt  0:00  

I shouldn’t do this for the kids. I’m afraid I have to disagree. Don’t do this for the kids. You don’t want your kids going through life watching a mom and dad, which is what a relationship should be like. Now let’s say that he loves her, he is in love with her, which happened. He’s trying to figure out, “Should I stay?” What I would look at at this point is not only, like you said, he says he takes the role for his part. What can you do? Why did this happen? That’s what I would look at myself and try to figure out. First of all, she’s got to stop immediately, Period, end of the story. Suppose she’s not going to stop immediately. I’m out.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Powerful Man show. I’m your host, Doug Holt, with my co-host, Tim, “The Powerful Man” Matthews. Tim, what’s going on? Come on live right from your new pad. How do you like it there?

Tim Matthews  0:46  

I love it. I’m looking forward to getting the office done. I realized the other day. Now there’s so much to do to get it all set up, and you get it right; you’ve recently moved. So I have this overwhelming desire to have it complete. Because I moved to somewhere other than epic lifestyle, yet, we have not yet got to the lifestyle portion to a degree because we’re spending the weekends a lot of time in that round, we get to do auto to do. So it’s incredible. I love it, and I’m looking forward to the time when we’ve just got the foundation set.

Doug Holt  1:29  

So one thing, I don’t think I’ve told you that, and I get that. So Darcy, who works with me, was here yesterday, and I came back from a rough workout, just tired. So I bought a kind of a big-screen TV over my shoulder, which you can see if you’re watching the video, can’t see it. But there’s a big-screen TV back there with the sound system. And I bought a new couch with one of those L shapes. So like it’s got a two-person lounger. Darcy, I didn’t show the two-person lounger. But we just kicked it over there on the couch and went through work and things. And it was just so lovely to sit there as part of your office, having that space where you don’t want to be in front of a computer. We threw on a train a video that I thought you wanted me to watch, apparently the wrong one. But I threw that on there and just chilled, and the talk was relaxed. And just such a difference in the environment you’re in and the creative energy you get to come up with when you have a space that you love and desire and what you have. It’s just so different. You think about it. I’ve always listened to one of the things, and I can’t remember who I don’t have any idea who coined it. But the two biggest investments you should always make are having a very quality bed because you spend half of your day or at least a third of your day in it. Ideally, hopefully having great sex too. And then the other one is your shoes. Because you’re walking around in them. And most people don’t think about those things. The third one I’ll throw out there for us business leaders in our office.

Tim Matthews  3:01  

Yep.

Doug Holt  3:02  

Right? Because we spend so much time at the office, or at home or what have you. COVID crap, man. You want to get that in there so many guys that you and I’ve talked to where they’re in their master bedroom, and kids are walking by, and there’s a thing of laundry behind them, etc. Which again, it’s COVID. But having this space is awesome. To say the least.

Tim Matthews  3:28  

Yeah, I’ve got you to know, I ordered a big bed. What’s it called? It’s a tweet, jab, and it’s called Bedlington or something, I don’t know anyway, but it’s this grand guy so comfortable that it doesn’t arrive until the end of March.

Doug Holt  3:46  

oh, send me a picture.

Tim Matthews  3:47  

I’m just going to be so great. I’m looking at what’s going on in the office with a footstool with it. So yeah, I imagine when I sit down, I’ll be able to look out to the ocean, that’s going to be my journaling spot, we are going to set up space away from the computer as well, where I can watch training or do things that I don’t have to be sat at the desk, or in front of the computer. Still, we will work best when I’m aware of it.

Doug Holt  4:15  

Yeah, Oh, for sure. Well, it’s a change of environment, which is so necessary. You gotta you change things up. It’s essential to go for a walk and do other things. When I was an advisor at the university, I would go to their co-lab, the Innovation Lab, as you know, all the time. I was an advisor there, and I would go there and work, and then I’d go home and work, and I would go to coffee shops. At the time, I went to a brewery at work because Ben has got like 30 breweries here. Probably why I gained an extra 20 pounds. But anyway, I digress. So you threw a topic on the table right before we hit the record. Why don’t we jump into it?

Tim Matthews  4:56  

Yeah, okay. So as you know, you heard the last episode or the one before I was speaking to a few guys lately. And the theme is that their wives have hot, emotional affairs, sometimes physical affairs. The guys are coming towards one guy, in particular, who was telling me about how he had to have an intervention, basically, with the wife of the guy who was married to the guy who was seeing his wife. So those two, yeah, those two teamed up to peel away the two. They’re having an affair. And he got to the point where he even was like, taking a phone off. So she couldn’t text him and got social media apps and crazy stuff. And he said something that I found interesting is like. He accepts his part in the role that he put him in, pushing her away, right? Because he ignored the warning sign, she would come to him and say things like, “Hey, are you having an affair?” because obviously, he’s not sleeping with her or is ignoring her, or whatever the thing is. Instead of listening to the underlying concern, he calls her, “Are you insane?” which didn’t help her. It pushes them further apart, obviously, right? He was busy building now as a five-year journey building these businesses, which is just completed, and now he’s got all his time and space and money, but no one to enjoy it with. Right? And he’s in this process of, should I fix this? That’s what we need to throw out there. Get your opinion on it, right. What do you think? What advice would you give these guys that are in this position? Do they accept their side? How they contributed to the wife having an emotional affair? Oh, you know, they reached out to us because they think that they should do it. It’s the right thing to do to try and fix it. So maybe they do still love the woman, but they’ve got this nagging thing in the back of their mind. Should I do this? Should I fix this? after how her treatment is one guy in particular. Sometimes, Tim, I think, How could you do this? I’ve spent the past five years building this business, basically just paying her to go to the gym for five years to train like an athlete. And she repays me by now going and banging the trainer. Which I thought was a fair point, you know? So anyway, yeah, what advice would you give? Let’s say somebody is listening to this, and maybe in a similar position, it’s this guy. And he’s struggling to come to terms in his mind. Should I fix this? Or shouldn’t I fix this?

Doug Holt  7:53  

Wow. This isn’t the topic you talked about earlier, roughly? Deviation. 

Tim Matthews  8:00  

You must just hit record because I’ve not finished?

Doug Holt  8:02  

Yeah. I like to do things on the fly. It’s fun. Keeps me on my toes. So here’s what I would say to him. If he was in front of me, the first question I would ask them is, do you love her? And are you in love with her? The answer is yes. to both of those. Let’s fix it. The answer is no. Or I’m not sure. Well, if the answer is no, then screw it. Why it’s time to prep yourself, get yourself a lawyer. It’s time to get ready; game on. You’re exciting. Let’s get your exit plan together, just like in business. We’d have an exit plan with your exit strategy. We need to exit. Hopefully, it gets a little different because you have an exit plan before you get into the situation in business. But what is your exit strategy and get there? If he’s wavering, not sure. I’d want to dive deeper into why what’s going on? Because is that that ego that’s telling him he’s not sure, right? The ego of like, Oh, my male bride is hurting. And that’s another topic we can go into. But let’s say because if he’s reaching, I guess that this guy does love his wife. I mean, he wouldn’t be trying to get the phone from her. He would have just said, “fuck you! I’m out!” We just lost, you know, no profanity rating there. But he’d be out of here. And we screw you I’m out, and he’d be banging the other guy’s wife or something else. And that wouldn’t be an issue or this day; I noticed different guys you’re talking about.

Tim Matthews  9:32  

Yeah, well, this one guy just the caveat is he’s got kids as well. That throws in another girl who wants to leave it and risk somebody else raising my kids. I want to see my kids half the time, and I do think he loves that. He wants it because he has gone and invested in working with a therapist if you look at actions. It isn’t nice helping him, but it’s not solving the marriage problem. Then he’s reached out to us, obviously digested a ton of podcasts, and he has spent time with one of the advisors. Ben got passed through to me. So he’s invested hours into this already right into not thinking about this but actively trying to fix it.

Doug Holt  10:19  

Yeah, so again, let’s assume that he wants to, so what I would tell him, and this is common for us guys, right? Maybe he’s saying, “Hey, look, I should do this for the kids.” I’m afraid I have to disagree. Don’t do this for the kids. You don’t want your kids going through life watching a mom and dad. This is what a relationship should be like. That’s a shitty one. No, that’s the worst thing you can do for your kids. Show your kids that they need to value themselves, love themselves, and they should be in a loving, caring, sex-full relationship, not a sexless one. So let’s cross that bridge. Let’s say that he loves, really loves her, and this happens. He’s trying to figure out “should I stay?” What I would look at at this point is not only like you said, He says he takes the role for his part, is what he can do? Why did this happen? Right? That’s what I would look at myself and try to figure out why. First of all, she’s got to stop immediately. Period, end of the story, she’s not going to stop immediately I’m out. I’m done, then I’m going to work on myself. You know, we talked about raising your stock-raising your value, like this guy, if he joined The Activation Method, or he wouldn’t be talking to you. I’m assuming because they usually, guys, you talk to one of our alumni, we call them advisors, they’re alumni, they’re guys that have been through the program that want to help other men, then, you might talk to Tim or somebody else that’s on the team, again, to see if it’s a good fit. We don’t; we don’t take everybody that comes through the program. That’s not what it was designed. Are we not that kind of a place, right?

Tim Matthews  11:55  

Not that it will give a guarantee. Right? So we can’t just put everybody in there with the guarantee. We’ve got to make sure.

Doug Holt  12:04  

It’s going to be right. It’s gotta be the right environment for all the men, too, because that’s the key right is helping the guys. So what I would say here to him if he’s investing in himself, and he’s doing that, assuming she stopped, maybe it’s banging the trainer, right? Now I go down and talk to the trainer too. I go down to have a conversation. I used to own a gym. I see you’d see this all the time in the fitness industry. Sorry, guys. But you do see it a lot. But I would go. I’d have a conversation.

Tim Matthews  12:34  

And here’s the thing, I wouldn’t be taking a phone offer to get to stop. 

Doug Holt  12:39  

Nope. 

Tim Matthews  12:40  

Not going to be like, “Hey, you’ve charged me to stop while you’re done? If you don’t? I’m gone.”

Doug Holt  12:46  

Yeah, honestly, I’d probably check. I’d want to know. But I would say, “Look, you don’t want to be with me, that’s fine. We’re less exciting or not exciting; I would say then that’s fine. And it’s not working out. Great. I love you. I want to be with you. If you don’t want to be with me, you’re not willing to work on this, fine. But I would say a clear line of delineation for me is if you want to be with another man, it’s not going to work for me. I understand that’s what you want to do. You do your own thing, but I’m not available for that type of relationship.” Right? And I draw a clear line in the sand. Boom. This is it? Yes or no? If she wants to work on it, then you do it. Right. You work on yourself. You get fit; you hire a trainer. You go to the gym, and I pull the plug on her gym. She’s going somewhere else now or not going anywhere. She’s got to make amends for me. And you double down like these guys. kudos to them for reaching out to develop yourself. Right. I think Tim takes the show to the biggest balls, right? The courage to reach out to the powerful men ends up talking to you. men say instant sharing what this got these guys shared? I mean, those are courageous men. No One No doubts this guy’s running a great business. Because he takes that courage and that nerve to step up. Most men are just listening. Oh, yeah, I’d love to do it. But excuse, excuse, excuse. So yeah, then I start working on myself; I’d be doubling down on me, not doubling down and trying to get her back, doubling down on me because my stock would rise. Now here’s the cool thing, which most guys forget when they’re in this situation. I get it. When you’re in it. You can’t see the forest from the trees when working on yourself to bring your woman back. So I’m going to use this whole value yourself, the sexual marketplace value kind of idea. Let’s say you’re a six. She’s been at the gym, the trainer. She’s an eight now. She’s jumped up. So there’s a big gap. There’s a two-point gap. That’s a gap where you have separation or at least emotional affairs, if not physical affairs, right. So there is a gap there. So let’s say that’s happening, and you’re going through there. So let’s say you start working on yourself, you go through The Activation Method, you do the things that the coaches are telling you to do, you’re going to jump up to an eight, maybe nine, right? As you’re going through there. Let’s say you’re an eight now. And you and your wife stay together because now, all of a sudden, she’s finding you attractive, your sexual, etc. Everything’s good, hunky-dory, you move on. But let’s say it doesn’t work out, Tim. Let’s say you guys split up. Do you think you’re going to have a better chance of finding a woman at a six or an eight? Let’s be realistic. Eight, it’s going to be so much easier for you to attract a better mate, a better woman, better sex, and everything. As you raise your game. What do women find attractive? Right? physical appearance, also growth, hence The Activation Method. Right? women find that incredibly sexy. Just ask any guy that’s in the program that’s been through our programs, there with the wives turned around right away, because they’re like, that is sexy, he’s bettering himself, his value is going up, called hypergamy. Call whatever you want; his value is going up. She’s going to take notice, and she’s going to know. Now back to your original question. Should he stay in a relationship? That completely depends if he loves her and is in love with her and willing to work on it? I say yes. For me, there’s a caveat there, and she has to stop hard in the sand. Boom, this is not acceptable to me. I will not be treated this way. If you think this if you don’t stop, I’m out. And that stops tomorrow, stops immediately. Grab your phone, call them now. Tell them it’s over. Tell them don’t contact me again. If it happens again, I want you to know right now. I’m out. period and the story. I think the line in the sand that firm. Now I may talk to the guy depending on this guy’s involvement. Some guys are unwitting, flirting via text or doing things or what have you. Screw it, leave the guy alone, right? But if he crosses the line with your woman, and he knows you guys are married, I’m probably going to go down and have a conversation.

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What am I going to say? I’m going to make it known. If I know him, Tim, it’s different than what I’m going to say. If I know him, I’m probably not going to say anything. But we’re going to have a different kind of conversation. I’m going to take a baseball bat with me because he’s violating me. I really would. I got zero ethical issues with that. None. No, I know, it’s not supposed to be nonviolent and all those things. I have no moral dilemma about taking a baseball bat to a guy who violates me, and he is messing with my family.

Tim Matthews  18:37  

Cool.

Doug Holt  18:39  

He won’t do it again. I can promise you,

Tim Matthews  18:41  

you mean you were going to play baseball with him.

Doug Holt  18:43  

Yeah, we’re going to play baseball or something like that. If I don’t know him, right, I’m going to assume ignorance and, like most guys, because I know guys who have been on the other side of this who are good guys who’ve caught up and been the trainer. Actually, no, not several trainers have done this. But also know other guys are just good guys to see this as a game, right? They’re just playing, and they’re getting their ego-filled, etc. I’m just going to let him be known that I know. I know who he is. And the baseball bats the next step, right. And I’m in the statesman, so baseball bats a nice thing right guys over here shoot each other. Everybody who’s got a gun, theoretically. 

Tim Matthews  19:27  

Everyone likes to play baseball over there. 

Doug Holt  19:29  

Everybody plays baseball here in the States. That funniest side is when we have that snowball fight. Remember, I keep bringing that up.

Tim Matthews  19:35  

Yeah.

Doug Holt  19:38  

We all grew up playing baseball, so we throw snowballs. But yeah, that’s just guys and me, I want to make it evident from a legal perspective, but I’m not condoning violence. I’m not saying that you do this by any means. This is just what I think my emotions would take over. And I think that it would be obvious to the person that this would not be acceptable. And if it’s somebody that I knew, I’d make it very clear that relocation should be an option for them. I just would, man, I just, it’s who I am. So anyway, but don’t do it yourself, guys.

Tim Matthews  20:19  

But especially if you’ve been like confiding the guy and sharing with him the stuff that’s been going on in the marriage, and you’ve had him around for dinner, and oh, my God,

Doug Holt  20:31  

I wouldn’t handle it very well. From a stoic perspective, I couldn’t handle it well. I guess I would because I don’t think there’d be as much it’d be emotion attached to it anyway; we’re going down to

Tim Matthews  20:44  

If you know the guy, would you still be willing to work on it with your wife?

Doug Holt  20:51  

So if I was the guy, who what? 

Tim Matthews  20:54  

If you knew the guy? would you be willing to work with your wife, knowing that she’s also then doing this, somebody who you’ve had in your house and all the rest of it?

Doug Holt  21:06  

Again, I think it’s all the caveats that fall into place here. Right. I haven’t been in this situation where my wife’s had an affair. So I don’t know. So that’s a hard thing for me, too. I’ve been in enough situations in my life where I think I would do something, and then I’m in that situation, I do something differently. You know, I’m saying,

Tim Matthews  21:29  

I find it harder if we knew the guy because then it’s even more of a violation of trust from both sides. Right. Like, if you were willing to do that with somebody who we know who’s been close to us and because I’m pretty sure I recall correctly. They knew that we were a couple. 

Doug Holt  21:51  

Yeah, well, there are two different guys, right? What are you talking about here?

Tim Matthews  21:53  

Yeah, yeah. But this one? Is this one in particular. We’re talking about now.

Doug Holt  21:58  

Yeah. But I think you love the person, and you’re in love with them, like, you kind of go. Okay, we’re all human; we all make mistakes that should happen. Like, there are ways to justify that it is going to be harder for sure. Right? It’s a lot more untangling that’s involved.

Tim Matthews  22:18  

I guess it depends on how long it’s been going on and all that stuff as well. Was it a one-night stand? Or was it more devious?

Doug Holt  22:27  

You told me earlier, and this guy has to pull the phone away from her. That’s weird to me, no offense to this gentleman, but that’s a weird situation where the wife is basically in front of him, texting this other guy, and he knows it. The point where he has to grab the phone and take it away, and because she won’t stop.

Tim Matthews  22:52  

I think I recall that correctly. But regardless, that is a weird situation, right?

Doug Holt  22:59  

Yeah. I mean, she doesn’t. She doesn’t give a shit. She doesn’t respect him. 

Tim Matthews  23:07  

That’s a big thing, the respect piece, right. The way that he’s doing the work to try and repair it is leaving a note. He’s buying flowers, and he’s doing the things that she liked when he first got together. And I was like, “well, is that working for you?”. Well, you know what worked for him? What’s up?

Doug Holt  23:32  

Those are beta traits.

Tim Matthews  23:34  

Yeah, they are. What worked for him was over Christmas, when he reached a boiling point and said, right, no more, I’m gone, took the kids, and left the family gathering for the night. She then woke up the following day, and as I’m so sorry. He was. I saw that woman again. So yeah, because you’ve drawn a line in the sand. And you’ve said, here’s what I’m no longer willing to accept. You’ve gone. And she’s like, wow, the respect is coming back. But when you leave in the notes, and you’re buying flowers and taking on trips, after doing that, there’s no respect there.

Doug Holt  24:10  

No, I mean, there’s a difference. I want to do a podcast on the difference between alpha actions and beta actions because so many guys fall into the Mr. Nice Guy, the nice guy realm, right? There’s a book called Mr. Nice Guy talks about this, which is good by Glover. I think it is the guy’s name. He wrote it. It’s a good book. I recommend reading it, guys. When it talks about a trap, there are so many men I fell into, right? The nice guy, okay. Things aren’t working out in the marriage relationship. “I’m gonna take out the trash before she gets home. Okay, I’m going to do more, do more, do more to be a better husband”. Doesn’t work, man. My wife just wanted me to lead. There are other things I was doing that she didn’t like, right. I was working too much. I turned to business instead of her. Other things that I was doing So when I tried to do the beta things, it wasn’t granted, I could use a little bit more, probably, according to my wife, and according to other people, I could use more beta in my life. And sprinkle them on the right, don’t just go over; chances are, she’s looking for you. And sometimes I’ve heard this from women, Tim, where they want their man to be dominant and be more alpha and a leader. So they will have an emotional affair to shake it up. So he will step up. Right, or physical affair. So he’ll step up because she’s probably been wanting this and hasn’t known how to ask or get it, or she has asked and is not getting it. Because if a woman has to ask you to be more of a man, and you become more of a man, that’s a beta trait because she’s telling you what to do. She doesn’t want it. This is the whole idea that women talk about it. Guys make jokes about it, but a woman wants you to know what to do. That’s alpha. Right? Alpha isn’t being the biggest dude in the room, pounding your chest, taking a baseball bat to a guy; those aren’t alpha things. That’s not alpha, and alpha is taking the leadership role and taking the dominant role. That’s really what it is. Where its beta is being more submissive in the situation. And my guess is what trainers naturally, I mean, you were a PT, and I ran a whole business around it. So you’re naturally in an alpha environment, right, and act naturally seen as an alpha. So that’s a tough one, guys; by the way, it’s going to be real. But

Tim Matthews  26:34  

it was a lot of fun.

Doug Holt  26:36  

I bet it was. I’m just going to be real with you. Because you know, for a woman to train with a trainer. And we have a lot of trainers that listen to this, and you guys know this. And I would say, 90% of those trainers are ethical and doing a great job. But then you have the 10%, your wife sweating it out, she’s working on a goal. She’s working on a goal. She’s bettering herself. She’s in a hypersexual environment working on her body, and she has a guy who’s probably sexy, who’s in a dominant position of telling her what to do all the things that she wants you to do. It’s a formula for an affair. Right? Professionals, fitness professionals don’t cross that line. But very few, as I said, but 10% aren’t professional, very few are professional. So it’s something definitely to watch out for. I know, that’s not what you’re talking about. But it’s an aside. And there’s been times in my career, Tim, where I’ve had husbands show up. I had a private facility in Santa Barbara, but I’ve had husbands show up to meet me. When their wife started working with me, that was cool. I got a new one. It was kind of you to feel bad for the guy. But you know it, and I just wanted to come by meet you, say hi, introduce myself. That’s kind of the subliminal message there is. And if anything goes wrong, I’m going to show up with a baseball bat. And play baseball with your skull. But that’s what I mean, and the guys are protective. That’s overly that’s a beta characteristic again if the woman finds out and knows about it, so usually, the wife if she finds out what apologize to me, it’s like no big deal.  I’m not here to do anything. I’m a professional. We’re here to work on your goals.

Tim Matthews  28:21  

I believe in that.

Doug Holt  28:24  

I was going to leave it there. So yeah, when you look at this situation, again, I’ll do I love her? And am I in love with her? And if I am, then in my will, is she going to stop? I am willing to work on this guy’s going to take work on your part too, and she’s got to be willing to work on it as well. But it starts with your leadership. It starts with you guys doing it. It sounds like these guys are signing up for The Activation Method. They’re going to activate. So they’re going to activate themselves, they’re going to get into that powerful state, she’s going to step in line, it’s my guess. And I say that it sounds misogynistic. But I mean, from a leadership standpoint, she’s going to step in line and follow the leader, right was going to be him, which he hasn’t been. And that’s going to change things. And if it doesn’t, he’s going to raise his market value. And if they break up anyway, he’s going to be a better man, and it’s going to have more value in the sexual marketplace.

Tim Matthews  29:16  

Yep. For sure. And The Activation Method that I think you’ll benefit from is getting out of those emotions because he’s also the end of the day. He’s angry, quite rightly, sad, ashamed, frustrated, so there’s a side to this where for him working on it, it can’t just be all logical, talking about it and things like that he gets to go through the process, to release some of that stuff otherwise is going to carry that with him, is always going to feel restless because he’s got that undercurrent of unease. So I’m looking forward to that.

Doug Holt  30:00  

Awesome, love. I wish these guys both these guys and gentlemen, if you’re in this situation, the best of luck. Reach out. Please don’t suffer in silence; guys, reach out like these two guys did, whether it be to us or reach out in the group and have a conversation, and there’s a lot of guys going through this right now. And the thought that it’s your fault or you’re alone is just not true. Just not true, guys. Many men go through this situation, and I’d say a lot anyway; I don’t know statistics, but no need to suffer in silence. Guys, also, as always, go over to ThePowerfulMan.com/Bonus if you haven’t already grabbed the Reignite Cheatsheet, put it to work, see some of this methodology work in your relationship today and do that right away. And as always, if you haven’t already, please leave us a rating on iTunes, and the awesome, authentic rating would be great. And let us know what you think about the podcast so other men like you can find us. Until then, gentlemen, we’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man show.