Episode #913
What if fitness didn’t mean endless hours in the gym or giving up the foods you love?
In this episode, Doug Holt interviews fitness expert David Sherban, who shares his practical, no-nonsense approach to achieving health and fitness without sacrificing your lifestyle. With years of experience as a coach and gym owner, David reveals how small, consistent changes can lead to sustainable results, challenging the myth of “all-or-nothing” routines.
Listeners will learn:
- Why making health a priority now prevents future challenges.
- How to build a fitness plan that fits your busy life.
- Nutrition strategies that are both effective and enjoyable.
- The role of peptides, blood panel analysis, and strength training in achieving optimal health.
David’s insights are particularly valuable for business owners and professionals looking to balance career success with personal vitality. His coaching style focuses on creating a realistic, sustainable plan for long-term health.
Connect with David Sherban:
Instagram: @davidjamessherban
Email: David@trainnoble.com
Tune in to discover how to reclaim your health, find balance, and enjoy the process!
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Transcription
Brian Boyd 0:00
I don’t think squirreling away money is a good idea in a divorce. I think the better thing to do is to sit down with your spouse and say, “Look, it’s not working. We have some assets. Let’s just split them up. You take this. I’ll take that.” I don’t think hiding assets is ethical. Now, can I say anything about it? Nope, I can’t talk about it. And while I might advise you against doing something, my job is to help my client.
Doug Holt 0:45
Hey, guys, welcome back to another episode of The TPM Show. I am joined by a very special guest today, Brian Boyd. Brian is not only a litigator and a lawyer but also an expert in tax. In fact, I’m going to let Brian explain what he does, and we’ll talk a little bit about how we connected.
Brian Boyd 1:04
Well, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. So, a little bit about me. I’m a lawyer. I graduated from Samford University’s Cumberland School of Law in 2004. Then I went to tax school at Georgetown, graduating there in 2005. I worked in DC for Ernst & Young in their corporate tax group and then found my way back home to Tennessee. I’m a native of Tennessee. My parents are natives. Their parents are natives. So we go back a little bit.
And so now I live in Franklin, Tennessee, which is just south of Nashville. It’s a suburb. I’m a partner at the law firm of Thompson & Burton, and I’m in the corporate group. But, like only one other partner in the firm, I stand in two worlds. I litigate, and I also transact, which is unusual for most attorneys. Typically, most attorneys pick one or the other. Just the way my practice evolved over the years, I do both, and I prefer the transactional. But if it’s an established client, I will litigate for that client. I’ve litigated with the Department of Justice over tax issues. I deal with business disputes all the time. In fact, I’ve got one on my desk right now, and that’s what I do.
But my passion in the practice of law is helping business owners and individuals save on taxes, structure themselves in a tax-efficient manner, and create a strategy for moving forward with asset protection and wealth growth. And, you know, that’s what I do.
I’ve got a social media following on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. But on the day-to-day stuff, I am our tax guy here in the corporate group. So, last week I was looking at unrelated business income tax. We have a client; he’s a billionaire, and he’s going to be spending $140 million. We had to figure out, “Alright, what’s that going to look like from a tax standpoint, and how do we make sure: one, it’s tax-efficient; two, we have the right structure in place; and three, we are complying with all the rules of the SEC and the IRS?”
So, there are a lot of components that go into what I do, but I’ve got great partners around me. We all play our part in helping clients. And, you know, recently, we just launched what we call GC in a Box—General Counsel in a Box. It’s a flat rate. It replaces your general counsel. We charge a flat rate. It’s a bespoke program for individuals and small businesses and even larger businesses, typically $200 million and below. We’ll work with them and say, “Hey, for this amount of money, we basically replace your general counsel.”
I was talking to a client—a buddy who’s now becoming a client—who runs a firearms company. He was telling me what he pays his GC, and that his GC is leaving. I was like, “Wow. Well, for a quarter of that, we will not bill you beyond your flat rate. You have unlimited hours with us, and we cover everything.” There’s a litany of items we cover. Anything outside that, we bill our hourly rate. For example, litigation—we have to bill our hourly rate for litigation. But, you know, everything from contract review to tax advice to intellectual property, we’re billing a flat rate for it.
That’s really going a long way to helping some small businesses save but also have the access they need. So we’re available at any time. A client can say, “Hey, can you have a call today at four?” I’m like, “Okay, yeah, one of us will get on the phone with you, and we’ll talk with you. Let’s work it out.”
So, you know, that’s kind of what I do on a day-to-day basis. I’m a real estate investor. I’m an author. I do speaking engagements and seminars. That’s how I try to help with what I do—bringing it out to everybody and making it more of a populist movement as opposed to an elitist movement, where most people can’t afford a tax attorney, especially given the way hourly rates have increased.
That’s just part of the market. You have to stay relevant, and you have to stay on top of things. But we offer that service at a lower rate for people only because we think it’s important that everybody have good information and good structuring. We shouldn’t out-price the market for most people. So that’s our goal.
Doug Holt 6:04
I love it. And we were talking a little bit offline. You’re also a father, a husband, and an avid outdoorsman as well. A lot of our guys can relate to that—hearing it, as you know, all guys are businessmen who are married, have gone through their relationship woes, and are also fathers.
Brian Boyd 6:25
Absolutely. I’ve got a 13-year-old boy, and I started taking him into the field with me when he was about six. We have bird dogs, we have chocolate labs, and, like I said, I love to be outside. I love to bird hunt. You know, South Dakota this time of year is freezing, but it’s great for birds if you’re a pheasant hunter. I also deer hunt.
Last year, I took my family to Patagonia, and we went on a red stag hunt. We brought back some nice trophies, but the most exciting part was watching my, at-the-time 12-year-old son, shoot a red stag 200 yards uphill with a right-to-left wind and drop it. I was ecstatic, and he was like, “Eh, not a big deal.” I’m like, “Dude, that’s incredible! Good for you!” He said, “He’s small.” I said, “This is incredible, buddy.” And he was just like, “Eh.” I said, “Dude, you have no idea what you just did.”
He shot a .36, and my son, at the time, was under 100 pounds. That’s a good kick on that. I was like, “Well, good for you.” So yeah, I’m an avid outdoorsman. Fly fishing, hunting—whether it’s big game or small game.
I actually have a deer camera in my neighborhood. I’ve been feeding deer for over a year now, and one of the HOA people came up to me the other day and said, “Can we talk to you?” I was like, “Nope, you can’t.” I knew what they were going to say. They’re like, “What are you doing?” I’m like, “Well, it’s not your business. It’s not on your property.”
I’m not hunting in the neighborhood, if anybody’s worried about that, but I am watching deer because I’m just fascinated by that. My wife fly fishes with me; she’s got a better rhythm than I do. We’ve fly fished Patagonia, Montana (because we’re out there so much), Colorado, Vermont, and here in Tennessee. We’ve got some great fly fishing here.
We are a family that enjoys being outdoors together, so it’s a big part of our life and the way we live. We eat game all the time. Elk chili, deer chili—that’s a big part of life for us. So yeah, we’re big into the outdoors.
Doug Holt 8:59
Love it. You’re making me hungry. Are we getting closer to lunchtime over here? I’ll be looking forward to it.
One of the interesting things we were also talking about offline is the way that you and I connected. One of my, you know, kind of tempting things, I guess—one of my vices—is that when I put the kids to bed, sometimes my son, who’s seven, gets a little scared. He wants Dad in the room, so I’ll sit in a chair and go through TikToks.
I ran across one of yours, and I thought it was really interesting. We were talking about one of your clients buying, I think, a city or a town at the time. Then I went down the Brian rabbit hole. You have a lot of great content you’re putting out there for people—from haunted houses to solid information, giving people legal and (I wouldn’t say advice but) legal information and tax information that makes it approachable to the average person.
Brian Boyd 9:53
Yeah, and so much of what we do on a regular basis—everybody thinks about lawyers, and they think we’re stuffy. That’s one misconception. But on the other side of the spectrum, you have people who think lawyers are like Harvey Specter from Suits, right? That’s what we’re like. And that’s not true.
We have a lot of good information and fun stories, and I’m just trying to relate it. So much of what I do on a regular basis, especially in my day-to-day life, is like, “Hey, you know, people will actually benefit from this.”
I did one video recently—I don’t even know if my social media manager has put it out yet—where I’m just talking about what you can do by year-end, if you’re a W-2 or even a small business owner, to save on taxes. I’d rather pay myself now and reap the benefits from a tax standpoint than pay that to the IRS.
It’s just a quick little, “Hey, fund your retirement account.” Or, “You can pay your children.” If you’re a small business, you can do that. If you really want to set them up in life, you can pay them up to the standard deduction amount. Then you take that money and put it into a Roth IRA or an index fund and just let it go.
Do that every year, and by the time your kid’s in their 40s, they’re going to be millionaires because you funded this at the beginning.
I did another video where I was literally walking out of the gym at 7:00 in the morning. I’m like, “You know what? I just paid this premium on my insurance policies. Let me tell people about what I do with life insurance.”
People came out of the woodwork saying, “Oh, that’s a bad investment.” It’s like, “It’s not an investment; it’s life insurance.” When my son was three months old, I bought him a whole life policy and put $600 a month into that. Now, that’s a lot for a lot of people. But my goal was to say, “Hey, I’m going to fund this, and when it’s time for you to go off to college, I’m going to borrow money from that policy to pay your tuition. I’ll pay it back as a loan, and upon your graduation from college, it’ll be fully funded again.”
Then I’ll just hand it to him and say, “This is yours. Here’s your start in life. I funded it. You can cash it out. You can keep it. You can do whatever you want with it. But this paid for your college, and this is going to be your start in life.”
That’s just one of the things most people don’t understand. The reason I like life insurance is, one, it’s super safe. It’s not subject to the volatility of the stock market. Two, there’s a tax-free death benefit for the beneficiaries. And, you know, you can borrow against it if you want to. You don’t have to pay it back if you don’t want to, as long as it’s funded up to a certain amount.
You can turbocharge it with all these riders like paid-up addition riders. I’m sure there’s an insurance agent out there who can speak more intelligently about it than I can, but I love that kind of stuff.
I think we should share it. I’ve been very blessed in life. I have a good life, a great family, and this information will help others. I’m not doing it because I’m an insurance agent—I’m the last thing from an insurance agent. I don’t make anything from it. I’m just trying to pass on tidbits here and there that I think a lot of people can benefit from.
That’s how I look at social media: “How can we help everybody else?” Now, don’t get me wrong, I love watching dog videos. I love watching that shot on that deer from 300 yards away. I love all that. But for me, I use social media to try to educate people.
“Hey, I’m not the guy for this, but go talk to an insurance agent and see what’s right for you. If you’ve got small kids, go do this—even if it’s $50, $100, $200 a month. Do it.”
Doug Holt 14:23
I love it. I pay my children as well because they show up in our ads. They come here to The Ranch—we live about 10 minutes away from here on our property—and they work. They clean up stuff, and they work. I do something very similar. Ironically, I was talking about whole life insurance with somebody last night, and there isn’t a lot of information out there for the average person to disseminate what’s true and what’s not. You know, you have somebody on social media selling this “infinite banking system” with whole life insurance, and of course, they’re selling.
Brian Boyd 14:57
I do it. I do infinite banking. And just to explain to your listeners what infinite banking is—within these policies, there’s a cash component that just grows. Depending on how much you put in, how long you’ve had the policy, and what kind of riders you have on it, that determines how fast it grows.
My wife and I are heavily invested in real estate—heavily invested. If there’s a deal out there, we want to move fast. What we’ll do is borrow $100,000 out of a life insurance policy, buy that property, and pay cash for it. Then, 30–90 days out, we refinance it and pay back the life insurance policy.
That’s how we use it. I’m paying premiums every month, so it’s building itself back up. It prevents me from having to go to the bank and borrow from the bank. Even though the insurance policy has an interest component that I need to pay back, I don’t have to pay it back if I don’t want to, as long as the policy is funded to a certain level and it can sustain its value.
I do pay it back, but that’s just me, and that’s how the infinite banking system works. A lot of people out there—and even people on Wall Street—will say, “Oh, it’s not an investment.” Actually, it is an investment. It gives me a rate of return, it’s safe, and it’s like a high-interest savings account tied to the market. Especially if you have a universal life policy tied to certain indices, that’s how you can use it.
We utilize life insurance quite a bit in our investing life. I think more people should know about it. Maybe it’s not for you, but at least now you know.
Doug Holt 17:05
And again, that’s something I think you’re doing a great job of. While we’re talking, you’re putting that out there to the world and just sharing information with people.
It’s funny—as soon as I mentioned to some of the members in our community that you and I were talking, I sent you this. One guy sent me a text right away like, “No way! I see him on social media, and I’m interested in actually working with Brian.”
Brian Boyd 17:29
Well, that’s great. I’m willing to work with anybody, as long as we don’t have a conflict. That’s what I want to do because I really enjoy doing structure work. I love telling people, “Let’s do this instead and see what it looks like on your tax return a year from now.”
So many people say, “Oh, that’s great!” and then, “Why didn’t I know about it?” I’m like, “Well, like anything in the law, you didn’t go to law school, so there’s no reason you should know about it. Don’t kick yourself over it—that’s what we’re here for.”
I do find, especially in the tax world, that there aren’t enough strategists out there. A lot of people go to CPAs and ask, “Why didn’t you tell me this?” But that’s not a CPA’s job. That’s not what CPAs do. CPAs basically take history—everything you did this year—put it into the right boxes, and file that return. That’s their job: to comply with the law and the tax code.
Strategists are different. There are a lot of them on social media. I’ll give a shout-out to a few: Carlton Dennis, Mr. Tax Write-Off, and Mark West out in West Tennessee. He’s got this thing called Mark’s Money Secrets, and he does a great job. We’ve talked a couple of times, and he’s just trying to bring a populist message to what a lot of people think is unattainable.
People say, “I can’t afford that level of service.” I’m like, “Yeah, you can. You just need to pick up the nuggets along the way.” That’s what we’re doing, and I really enjoy working with people.
Now, I do have to make a living doing it, but I enjoy structuring things, helping people grow their wealth, and preserving their wealth. I like to see them succeed. I want everybody to make money—I’m a capitalist.
I think we’re about to enter a really good few years where there will be a lot of opportunities for people to make money. Especially with some of the proposals coming down through the new administration, you’re going to see some really nice benefits for small business owners.
Doug Holt 20:09
What kind of benefits are you seeing or predicting?
Brian Boyd 20:11
So, you know, there’s going to be the Section 168(k) bonus depreciation. Both sides of the aisle want it to go back to 100%. Currently, it’s at 60%; next year, it goes to 40%, and then in 2027, it’s gone completely. That was part of the 2017 Tax Act, and it allows you to depreciate personal property up to 100%. The goal is to bring it back to 100%, and I think under the new administration, you’re going to see that be made permanent because it spurs growth.
When you spur growth, you allow businesses to keep more of their money because you’re giving them a deduction for spending money. That, in turn, allows them to reinvest in their business, which grows the business. That’s what we all want everybody to do—I want everybody to have a successful business.
Just things like Section 168(k), which is bonus depreciation, are definitely coming back. I also think there’s going to be a push to lower the capital gains rate. I think there’s going to be a push to lower the corporate rate. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens with unrelated business income tax because that’s currently at 21%. I’m wondering if that doesn’t get tied to the corporate rate and drop down, or even tied to the capital gains rate and drop down.
So, those are things coming down the road for everybody, but your average businessperson doesn’t know because they’re not watching it. In fact, yesterday, a court in Texas ruled that the FinCEN requirement—which requires everybody with a 5% interest in an entity to disclose who they are, show their driver’s license, and get a special number—is unconstitutional. If you don’t comply, there’s a $500-a-day penalty, and this goes into effect on January 1.
Everybody is rushing to get their businesses registered with FinCEN, which is part of the Department of Treasury. But a federal judge in Texas said yesterday that it’s unconstitutional. There’s a moratorium on it—it’s no good right now until we figure this out.
That’s big news, but your average person probably doesn’t know about it. They’re jumping through hoops trying to get everything registered because who wants a $500-a-day penalty? Those are just some of the things we like to pass along to clients: “Hey, don’t do it. Don’t worry about it. You don’t have to pay for it. We’re good.” But if you’re not a lawyer, you probably don’t know.
Doug Holt 22:51
What are some other things that you’re seeing for business owners, small or large, that they’re missing? What are some common mistakes you’re seeing them make?
Brian Boyd 23:00
How they’re structured. What do I mean by structure? Well, when most people set up a business—and so many people are guilty of this—they’ll go to LegalZoom and just get the state form, which is what LegalZoom sells. They sell you the state form, fill it out for you, and that’s it. Then you get a tax ID number and set up a bank account. People think that’s a business.
Well, no, that’s the start of a business. Nobody’s talking to you about your tax structure. If you set up an LLC, are you a sole proprietor? Are you a partnership? Are you taxed as an S Corp? Are you taxed as a C Corp? People aren’t asking those questions, and that’s a big problem.
When they come to me, I ask, “Who set this up? Did you talk to them about what your tax category is?” They say, “No, I just went on LegalZoom, or whatever entity is out there, and I did this.”
I’ll ask, “Why? Why did you choose this? Why didn’t you choose a corporation? Why didn’t you choose an S Corp or a partnership? Why didn’t you make those decisions?”
They say, “I didn’t know.” Okay, fair—you didn’t know. But now we’ve got these tax issues coming up, and we need to figure this out. We need to see if we can make it retroactive, if possible—if they’ve gotten to me fast enough.
A lot of the problems I see are when people come to me and say, “Oh, I’ve got a business. What do I need to do?” I’ll say, “Let’s figure out your tax structure.” We do that and come up with structures that not only save you on taxes but also save you on liability.
Before we came on live, we were talking about Wyoming and how I love Wyoming for setting up entities. I’ve got my reasons for it. I’ve done videos on different states, like Montana, Wyoming, Delaware, and Nevada, but I like Wyoming.
People ask, “Why do you like it so much?”
I like it because it’s a no-tax state. You’re not paying taxes personally to the state of Wyoming. If you’re a refugee from California, I know that if you set up an LLC in California, you still have to remit taxes back to California, irrespective of whether you’re there or not.
I’m like, “Well, Wyoming doesn’t do that.” There’s no personal income tax there. There’s no corporate income tax there. They have charging order protections, which means that if you have a judgment against you, Wyoming’s statutes say they’re not going to compel anybody to make a distribution out of their LLC to pay a judgment to somebody else. That’s a big deal.
If you get sued, Wyoming basically says, “You don’t have to pay that out of this. We’re not going to do that.” I also like the low cost of administrating an LLC in Wyoming and the laws there. It’s very, very business-friendly—probably more so than Delaware.
Wyoming has made it so simple. A lot of people don’t understand that Wyoming is on the cutting edge of LLC law. It’s not Delaware; it’s never been Delaware. It’s always been Wyoming. The states follow Wyoming; they don’t follow Delaware. Delaware makes really good corporate law because they have a chancery court dedicated to corporate law, but Wyoming is where things are being done.
Doug Holt 26:50
Yeah, I have three entities in Wyoming, so I’m a big fan myself as well. So, we have structuring, and I have so many questions as you’re talking, but what I want to go back to is you made an observation that I thought was really not talked about very much: instead of just getting your taxes done—everyone’s clamoring to get their taxes done—but what about tax strategy? Especially for business owners. A lot of our guys are invested in real estate, they have multiple businesses they’re working on. What’s the difference? And this is going to sound basic, but break it down for the listeners: the basics between their bookkeeper, their accountant, and somebody like yourself.
Brian Boyd 27:33
I think there’s a big misunderstanding out there about what tax lawyers do. Yeah, we research issues, and we figure out, “How does this look?” But our goal, our job, is to make sure that we’re being tax-efficient.
What does that mean? I’ve got a partner here who likes to call it “slippage”—you’re losing money through taxes. Lawyers make sure that you’re set up in such a way that I can call your CPA and say, “Hey, this is what we’re doing. This is what the plan is over the next four months. Let’s sit down and have a conversation about what this needs to look like and what the goal of doing this is.”
So when it comes time to prepare your tax return, they understand why things moved in a certain way.
You mentioned clients or listeners doing real estate. Well, you have 1031 exchanges, 721 UPREITs, DSTs, the “Slow Man’s 1031″—you have a lot of different mechanisms to use, but you’ve got to know how to move the money.
This is where a bookkeeper comes in. You’ve got to have a conversation with the bookkeeper: “Hey, this part is principal, this part is interest, this part is repaying a loan, this is what we’re putting into the Qualified Intermediary to hold the money. Make sure you pull all these pieces apart so we book it right.”
We all have our own parts to play. A bookkeeper—a really good bookkeeper—is worth their weight in gold. You need to find one, you need to use one.
Then, you need to have an accountant—whether it’s an enrolled agent, a CPA, or even a tax attorney who might do tax returns. I don’t do tax returns, but all of these roles need to talk.
When you’re talking about a CPA, a bookkeeper, and a tax lawyer, we’re basically talking about your money. You need to have a team to handle your money.
The tax strategist or the tax attorney is the one who’s saying, “Okay, let’s move it this way so we have this result at the end of the 12 months.” Your CPA, if you don’t keep them in the loop, is just looking at numbers provided by a bookkeeper, putting them on paper, filing it, and hoping you don’t get audited—because they don’t know. They haven’t been clued in.
The attorney, the CPA or enrolled agent, and the bookkeeper all need to have conversations. That’s how we move you from point A to point Z throughout your financial life.
By utilizing us in the way we’re meant to be used, we can achieve great successes. I equate it to trying to hit a deer with a rifle at 400 yards by shooting a shotgun. You’ve got to have the right tools. You’ve got to use that rifle. Shotguns are great for birds within 60 yards, but I’m not going to try to shoot a deer with a shotgun at 300–400 yards.
So, use the tools for what they’re meant to be used for. That’s all we are. We’re the ones coming up with an idea, speaking to your accountant, and talking to you to figure out, “What is your goal?”
That’s how I talk to all my clients: “What is your goal? What is your 3-, 5-, 7-, 9-, and 12-year goal? I want to know where you want to be along that range, and let’s put a plan in place to get you there.”
Unfortunately, CPAs take it on the chin because they’re so busy trying to figure out what you did and put it on paper.
But lawyers—if we’re talking to your CPAs—we’re saying, “Hey, this is why we’re doing this. This is the goal, and this is what we want to see.” If you talk to your CPAs, they’re smart people. They know, “Okay, I need to make sure we book it this way. Let me talk to the bookkeeper to make sure it’s going down on paper like this.”
That’s how we’re different. I think it’s important to have all of those people on your team.
Doug Holt 32:15
Gotcha. One of the questions I get often from business guys is, “What’s the best way”—let’s do that in air quotes on purpose—”to structure my company or companies? Do I need a holding company?” Is that something you typically sit down and work out, architecting it for them based on their goals?
Brian Boyd 32:34
Yeah, and you can’t see it because my whiteboard’s over there, but I whiteboard all the time. I think you mentioned something the other day—or before we got on live—about the structure I did, and I made a video of it: the client buying the city, right?
I am constantly structuring things. Like I said, I’m a pen-and-paper guy. Even on this page here, there’s a little structure I sketched out while I was taking notes and talking. By structuring things using holdcos (holding companies), trusts, and management companies, we’re able to create efficiencies throughout.
Imagine it this way: let’s say you have a company. We’re going to use easy numbers here, so people in the comments, don’t worry about the numbers. Let’s say you have a business that makes $100,000 a year.
Okay, great. Pay yourself a reasonable salary after you make a 2553 election to an S Corp, so you have pass-through treatment of the profits and losses. You’re going to pay yourself $50,000 and pay self-employment tax on that. At the end of the year, you then dividend out the remaining $50,000. By issuing a dividend, you’re not paying self-employment tax, so you’ve saved yourself some money in taxes.
We have to tell people how to do this and show it to them. We talk to their CPAs and their bookkeepers: “This is how it’s going to work, this is the salary, and this is what you’re going to do.”
That’s kind of how structuring works. We’re creating all these structures not only for liability protection but for efficiency. You’re still getting the $100,000—you’re still taking that home—but we’ve saved you all the self-employment tax you otherwise would have paid if you’d taken the whole $100,000 as a salary instead of $50,000 as a salary and $50,000 as a dividend.
Those are the kinds of things we show people. “Look, you’re getting the same amount of money, right? Why not just do it this way?”
Another thing we do: I really like to bring spouses into closely-held structures. Here’s why: let’s say you’re a CEO of a company. You’re doing really well, paying yourself, let’s say, $100,000. But you’re making $200,000 a year. You could put your spouse on payroll, pay her a reasonable salary, then dividend out to her and dividend out to you. You’re still bringing home the same amount of money, but you’re paying less in taxes.
You’re also benefiting your spouse because I like to use SEPs (Simplified Employee Pensions). You can put away up to 20% of $345,000—this year, that’s $69,000—and if you’re over 50, you can put away another $7,500. If you have two people on payroll, you’re stacking cash for retirement into a SEP that you can control.
People don’t think this way. Now, you might think this way, I think this way, financial planners think this way—but we’re trained to think this way. If you’re really good at making widgets, you should focus on making widgets. Leave this kind of thing to people like me.
We’ll figure this out. We’ll talk to your other people and put this together. You need to focus on making the best widgets possible.
That’s how structuring works. We’re here to make sure you’re taking the greatest advantage of the tax code possible without triggering audits, without crossing the line, while doing things ethically—but also benefiting yourself. That’s what we do on a regular basis.
Doug Holt 36:50
I love it. A lot of our guys that listen to this have international businesses as well. They’re US citizens or maybe Canadian. I’ve got a couple of questions for you about that. Are there better ways for us guys in the States, for example, to bring in money from overseas?
Brian Boyd 37:11
Yeah, there are. You’re talking about cross-border transactions.
We had two partners go to Japan to attend a week-long seminar, and they ended up teaching some of these law firms out of London, the UAE, Dubai, Japan, Germany, South Africa—basically, all over the world. They explained, “Hey, this is how we’re doing this, and this is why we’re doing it.”
By utilizing the structure we’ve put in place, you can bring in outside money, make outside investments, and not only does it protect you, but it also makes your life so much easier.
Quite frankly, we’ve figured it out. We’ve spent the time digging into this, talking to our colleagues overseas. We see how they’re using it, put our own twist on it, and suddenly we have a structure that works very well.
Now, I’m not going to tell anybody about it right here, but yeah, we do that. They’re called cross-border transactions. We just did one out of Costa Rica. We’ve got another one in Japan going on right now. We’ve got one in Canada going on.
The idea is to provide the tax efficiencies that are available here in the States by utilizing these structures to make your life so much easier.
Doug Holt 38:44
Awesome. You know, I talked to you about this a little bit, Brian. When I posted into our community that I’d be speaking to you, one of the guys said, “Well, crap, I’ve been fudging my taxes for a couple of years. It’s keeping me up at night.” Is that something that’s worthwhile going back and correcting, or is it better to just hope the IRS doesn’t swoop in later on and figure it out?
Brian Boyd 39:09
Yeah, that’s a great question. Here’s what I would say to people who may have misstated things on their tax returns: if you can amend within the three-year period and that year hasn’t closed—as long as it’s not in an audit or being audited—just go ahead, amend it, and make it right.
Look, you don’t want to go through a tax audit. Nobody enjoys tax audits. I’ve defended them. I’ve actually been through one myself, and they’re a pain in the ass.
I want people to take what they can take legally and ethically. Sometimes those two things don’t converge, but I want you to take what you can. I want you to pay as little as you have to, and I want you to sleep well at night knowing you’re not going to get audited and you haven’t done anything crazy.
I think it’s absolutely necessary for people—for our listeners right now—to say, “Hey, you know, I didn’t declare that $10,000 that year when someone 1099-ed me.” Declare it. Just amend it, restate it, and declare it. Get it over with. Sleep better at night.
It’s not worth it. Your health is really important, and sleep is part of that. For $10,000? Dude, come on, go declare it. That’s my advice to people: don’t fudge. You don’t need to do that.
Doug Holt 40:51
Do you run across—well, I’ve got to imagine that you deal with very aggressive business people who, at times, want to push the limits. How do you handle something like that?
Brian Boyd 41:04
Yeah, so when that happens—and it happens more than you’d think—they’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to pay any taxes.”
I’m like, “Okay, well, guess what? You live in the United States. You’re going to pay property tax, sales tax, gas tax, liquor tax, cigarette tax. There are taxes everywhere. You can’t just not pay tax.”
They’ll say, “No, no, I just don’t want to pay the IRS.”
I’m like, “Okay, do you have a business?”
“Yes, I’ve got a business.”
“Do you have employees?”
“Yes.”
“Well, you’re already paying Uncle Sam. They’re getting their portion of the employment tax every month. Every month they get it, so you’re paying them one way or the other.”
Now, I understand you don’t want to pay personal income tax. I get that, and there are ways to reduce that. But zero tax? Outside of being a real estate professional, I really don’t know of a lot of ways to offset income.
As I’ve said, I’m a big proponent of real estate. I’ve got quite a bit of real estate now—it’s been very good to me. Just the other day, we got a tax refund for $61,000. That’s through real estate.
A lot of people are like, “Oh, did you overpay?”
No, I didn’t overpay. I didn’t pay that year because I just got all that money back. That’s everything my wife paid, plus some.
We’re utilizing the tax code in such a way that we pay as we go, but we get it back in a refund.
I just think it’s unrealistic sometimes for people to say, “A good tax attorney or CPA or bookkeeper will keep me from paying taxes.” No, that’s not true.
We can only do what we can do. We don’t make the facts; we just deal with the facts.
But there is a way to minimize your taxes, and that’s all I’m talking about doing. When I talk to aggressive clients, I tell them, “Look, let us take a look and see what we can do. If you’re happy with that, we’ll move forward. But I promise you, zero tax—unless you’re heavily involved in real estate as a real estate professional—is probably not likely.”
I’m just trying to be candid with everybody listening: it’s probably not likely.
Doug Holt 43:36
Because I know a lot of our guys are aggressive businessmen, right? They’re looking for loopholes or ways of going around things. If they come to you—kind of like going to another lawyer or therapist—and say, “Hey, Brian, I’ve been doing this for four years. I’ve been skirting this thing. It’s $200,000 a year I’m putting aside,” at what point do you have to say something to someone else?
Where I’m coming from is a lot of our men are struggling in their marriages. Some of them are thinking, “Okay, I might be getting divorced,” so they start to squirrel money away. I see this happen all the time—moving things here, moving things there, just in case.
When it comes to what you do in the tax frame, I know a lot of these guys because I’ve gotten to know them really well. They can be very skittish about what they share. With a professional like yourself, I’ve got to imagine they have to share everything; otherwise, you can’t really help them.
Brian Boyd 44:34
Yeah, you know, I’ve got some very wealthy clients, and I’ve got some clients that are just barely getting by. What I tell them is, “Look, right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. I just need to know the facts. I need to know what happened, what you did, or what’s going on because unless I see the full picture, I can’t help you.”
We had a client buying a city—he’s actually an attorney and a hedge fund manager. The point remains, he said, “Look, I’m going to tell you everything, just so you know what to do.” I said, “That’s fine.” He told me things, and I thought, “Okay, I’m glad you told me that because that changes the way I look at this structure. I can do something that makes it very different for you.”
He was right. I can’t help if I don’t know the full story. If something comes out of the woodwork 2, 3, or 4 years down the road, and I didn’t know about it, I would have planned for it differently.
Even if you’re going through a divorce—look, guys, I’ve been through a divorce. It’s worth every penny. But I will tell you, starting over is not the worst thing in the world. Giving half to your spouse? Okay. Especially if you have kids.
If my wife and I got divorced today, I’d say, “Honey, take the real estate. Take all of it. I want you and my son to be taken care of. Take all of it.” Life’s too short to worry about how much I have.
I’ve got a lot: I’ve got a wife I love, a son I adore, and a good career. A divorce? Yeah, that would be personally devastating, but everything I do, I do for my family. If you want to be selfish during a divorce, it’s going to bite you in the butt because the judge will see it and adjust accordingly.
I don’t think squirreling away money is a good idea in a divorce. I think the better thing to do is sit down with your spouse and say, “Look, it’s not working. We have some assets. Let’s just split them up. You take this, I’ll take that.” I don’t think hiding assets is ethical.
Now, can I say anything about it? Nope. I don’t have an obligation to go to anyone and tell them anything. In fact, I can’t. If you tell me something, I can’t speak a word of it. I can’t talk about it. While I might advise you against doing something, my job is to help my client.
Doug Holt 47:51
Hey guys, sorry to interrupt this episode, but the reality is, if you’re watching or listening to this right now, then you’re looking to better yourself—and I applaud you. You’re one of my people, and I want to give you the opportunity to take massive action.
If you haven’t joined The Activation Method yet, it’s our flagship program. Do what thousands of other businessmen just like you have done: take action. Be one of the one-percenters that actually does the work and takes action.
There will be a link in the description that’ll take you right to a page with more information. There’s no obligation. Just go check it out and see if it’s a good fit for you. All right, let’s get back to this episode.
Brian Boyd 48:34
If my clients’ goals and desires diverge from what I think is ethical, I’ll say, “Hey, I don’t agree with this. I’ll help you do it, but I don’t agree with it. You understand the ramifications of doing this, right? Because if this blows back on you, don’t turn around and say I told you to do this.”
I’m telling you now: you need to understand the risks. But I have no obligation to go to any authorities or anybody like that.
The only ethical obligation I have is if I know somebody is in imminent danger. Only then can I talk to somebody about it.
But yeah, that’s the double-edged sword of being a lawyer. We know so much, but even if we ethically don’t agree with you, we can’t say anything about it.
I do tell clients, “Hey, let’s not do it that way. Let’s try another way. Let’s figure something else out.”
Doug Holt 49:34
Sure, you’re guiding them. You’re giving them advice as an advisor.
Brian Boyd 49:37
Yeah, being a counselor at that point.
I know there are a lot of guys going through divorces out there. I’ve been through a divorce. I’ve done it. It was worth every penny, but I was a lot younger, and it just wasn’t great.
So yeah, just get through it. Move on. I have a wife I adore—she’s beautiful and funny. We have a great time together. We have a lovely child and a good family. Things get better, people.
To your listeners out there going through a divorce: dude, this is just a page in your book. Man, just turn that page and move on. It’s just a page.
Doug Holt 50:29
Love it. Love it. Well, Brian, like I said, we have a few questions that guys sent in, and one of them you kind of touched on a little bit. I’m just going to read it as it was written to me, if that’s okay.
We talked about real estate, and one person said: “Me and two of my partners have been buying, renovating, and renting multi-units. I have struggled to designate myself as a ‘real estate professional’ like my two real estate agent partners do. This allows them to get much better tax treatment than I get. I would imagine a lot of people who do this as a side gig have questions around this. Are there any creative ways to accomplish it?”
So, I think what he’s looking for is: at what point do I call myself a real estate professional?
Brian Boyd 51:18
Real estate professional status is controlled by Section 469 of the tax code. Section 469 basically says all real estate is passive unless you spend 750 hours a year operating in real estate.
That 750 hours a year has to be more than what you spend deriving income from other sources. If you are a W-2 employee for a company, the IRS assumes you work between 1,800 and 2,000 hours a year for that employer. So, you would have to spend over 2,000 hours in real estate to achieve real estate professional status.
Is there a shortcut to this? No, there’s not, because the IRS audits that. You need to keep a log of all your time and everything you did every day in real estate.
Now, I will tell you, if your goal is just to achieve the 750 hours a year, that’s about 13 hours and change a week. I promise you, I spend more than that every week in real estate.
Do I spend more than that now that I’m at a law firm and not running my own firm? No. I’m just a partner at a firm, and I’m not going to achieve real estate professional status this year. It’s not going to happen.
Looking at my hours since I joined this firm in May, there’s no way. I’m working 12-hour days, and I’m not going to make it. I’m going to lose my real estate professional status this year. It just is what it is. I’ve had a good run, and it’s fine.
But no, there is no shortcut to it. Please don’t try to take one.
Now, alternatively, under Treasury Regulation 1.469-1T(e)(3)(ii)(A), which is the “short-term rental loophole,” you can spend 100 hours a year managing your short-term rentals.
Managing means you manage it. That doesn’t mean you hire a property manager. As soon as you get a property manager, none of this matters because you’re not going to be able to achieve what you’re looking to achieve.
But you can unlock those tax benefits through real estate if you manage it yourself, and it only requires 100 hours of management a year.
What does it mean to manage real estate? It means you’re handling the booking, the banking, coordinating the maintenance people, and coordinating the cleaners. You’re managing that property.
But there’s a phase-out. It phases out at $150,000. If you make more than $150,000, this isn’t going to help you because it phases out.
So, if your goal is to achieve real estate professional status, you need to jump into real estate or just buy more real estate.
You’d be surprised. We have 20 properties. This morning, before we came to work, we were sitting there talking about: “Who’s paid their rent? Have we fixed that outlet at that property?”
I was on the phone with my financial planner this morning saying, “Hey, we’re thinking about selling. What kind of vehicles do you have that we could 1031 into?”
All of that aggregates together. So, I probably spent an hour, hour and 15 minutes on real estate today. My wife is probably spending some time on it today too. In fact, I know she is.
It all adds up, but there’s no shortcut to it. There’s no way around it. You have to do the work.
Doug Holt 55:20
Got it. Yeah, everybody wants the shortcut. I want the pill.
This guy goes on to say, also as part of his question: “We’ve also started using investor money, and we’ve looked at just taking on straight debt. This seemingly allows us to have all the depreciation flow to only us three, which we like. We’ve weighed this against taking in straightforward investor equity money. I’d be interested to know the pros and cons here, and any of those ‘don’t know what I don’t know’ areas that Brian might have.”
Brian Boyd 55:53
Okay, well, he’s talking about a capital stack. He was initially talking about doing a syndicated deal where he brings on investor money, raises a certain amount, and then finances the rest of the capital stack through mezzanine financing or straight debt—like a loan from a bank.
But then he pivots to say, “Oh, my partners and I are now taking on debt.”
Here’s the issue: you’re only going to be able to take the debt to the extent of your capital account.
Let’s break that down. What does that mean? If you’ve got a $4 million loss in the first year—let’s say it’s a $100 million deal—and you’re trying to use depreciation or other mechanisms to create that $4 million loss, you’ve got a problem if your capital account is only $100,000.
Depreciation isn’t technically a loss; it’s a deduction. But if you’re trying to offset your income with that and you’ve only put in $100,000, you can’t take a $4 million loss. It’s not possible. You need to figure out how to increase your capital account.
What I would advise him to do is this: “Let’s get your accountant on the phone. Let’s start pulling this deal apart and modeling out what you want to see.”
I had a phone call just yesterday with a client down in New Orleans. He’s a lawyer, his brother is a real estate attorney, and we had a call with his CPA and his bookkeeper. All of us were there, pulling this deal apart and trying to make the model work.
I’ve got to tell you, man, it’s not an easy thing to do. There were three lawyers and two accountants on the phone, and we were working hard to figure this out.
There’s no quick answer to your listener’s question. It really is fact-intensive in terms of how we do this and make it work.
If he wants to take on debt, I would caution him to:
- Make sure his capital account is fully funded to the amount he wants to take in debt or deductions.
- Explore whether there’s a way to personally guarantee the debt and strap that debt to the capital account.
For example, you may have put in $100,000 in cash, but if you’re obligated on that debt, it could increase your capital account.
I know we’re diving into some heavy tax stuff here and geeking out a bit, but it’s really important. If you want to take those kinds of deductions on a deal like this, you have to get it right.
We just did a deal two weeks ago. A client out of Texas was buying into a syndication here with a $25 million buy-in on a $280 million deal.
We had to model it out:
- What does this look like?
- When are you actually going to start receiving returns on this money?
In this case, the pro forma showed they should start seeing returns by year three.
There’s a lot that goes into capital stacks and syndication deals, especially in real estate.
There’s no quick answer to your listener’s question. We’d have to see the numbers, pull it apart, and work on it. We’d absolutely need to be on the phone with their CPA.
I don’t crunch numbers, but I can tell you what I think is going to happen. Then, I need the CPA to model it out.
Doug Holt 59:57
Gotcha. Here’s another one around funding that’s probably going to be similar in terms of needing to know more information, but I’ll throw it out there from Jeff.
He says: “I’m curious to know, when financing a project, how much is too much? My largest land purchase was just over $150 million. It was not my most profitable deal. I no longer use outside funding. I only take on outside investors when I cannot fully fund the jobs. Interest rates play a big part whenever I look at funding. Curious to know Brian’s template to funding.”
Brian Boyd 1:00:33
So what we do here at the firm—we’re a heavy real estate investing firm. We have 50–55 lawyers, and our commercial real estate group is about 20. Most of the firm is involved in real estate.
When it comes to funding, especially at the rates going on right now, we’re turning clients onto family offices. By using family office money and giving them a slice of the deal, we’re getting cheaper capital.
If you go the traditional route of a bank—even if it’s Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, or BlackRock—you’re going to pay what we like to call a “VIG,” or a premium. You’re going to pay for it.
But if you go to family office money, they control what they’re doing. They control the interest rate. They don’t have to go through all these levels of oversight because they’re getting in on the deal.
I would encourage you to look at family office money. There’s so much out there—so much out there. Quite frankly, you can’t beat what they’re offering.
For example, they might give you a 5% rate, but they want 10% of the profits on the exit. Okay, so 5% now to build out a project? Heck yeah! You definitely can’t get a construction loan at that rate.
We try to use synergies between all of our clients. We’ve got a pretty good base of clients.
For instance, I’ve got a client now—a brilliant guy. He’s a West Point grad, went to MIT for business school, was a helicopter pilot in the Army, and then ended up working for one of the guys featured in the movie Too Big to Fail.
Greg is his name. Greg is a great guy. He came to me a few months ago and said, “Hey, I’ve partnered up with a buddy from business school, and this is an idea we have. What do you think?”
So I got on the phone with him, and we started talking through it. He was explaining it to me, and I thought, “That’s really elegant. I like that.”
They have access to capital that’s unheard of, and they’re tapping into family offices. I was like, “That’s incredible.”
He explained the project he had and the structure he was using, and now we’re utilizing that structure on a couple of things. There’s just so much out there.
So, to your listener Jeff: dude, we tap into other clients and say, “Hey, we’ve got a client coming in the door. This is what they’re interested in. Why don’t we put you two together and see if you can work something out?”
If you can, we’re happy to do the deal. We’ll need waivers from everybody, but we’re happy to do the deal.
We just want you to succeed. There’s no template to it. It’s about using the relationships we have to get cheaper money in the door.
Doug Holt 1:04:08
That’s awesome.
This brings up a side question for me that I know I get from a lot of guys. You have guys like Greg, who are—what I’ll say—playing at a higher level than the average Joe, so to speak.
Is there a difference in mentality that you see, Brian, between someone who’s thinking small—like, “I want to open a business on Main Street USA”—versus someone like Greg who’s taking a bigger swing at the bat?
Brian Boyd 1:04:35
Um, yeah, and it’s a difference in understanding money, and it’s a difference in understanding what can be done.
When you’re dealing with a Main Street business—like Acme Company on Main Street that sells widgets—they’re looking to make a living. They’re looking to create a job for themselves.
When you start dealing with high finance and sophisticated businesspeople, you’re seeing how they’re looking at money and deploying that money, and there’s a difference. They’re not looking to create a job—they’re looking to take their ear pods and turn them into 50 ear pods.
Whereas, if you’re dealing with someone on Main Street, they’re like, “Oh, I just don’t want to pay as much in taxes. I want to be able to retire at 65, move to Florida, get a house on the beach, and live out my golden years listening to Jimmy Buffett.”
Great! That’s fine.
But if you want to get into the world of understanding how money works and how your money should work for you—not you working for your money—then someone like Greg is a dream. He understands, “Hey, I can make X, and that’s fine, but I’m going to create X infinite by deploying money into this.”
That’s the difference. Greg’s not looking for a job.
Here’s what I tell people: I go all over the world. I hunt. I’m a member of a club in New York, and I hang out with a lot of Wall Streeters. If you ask those guys—every one of them—how much money they make, they couldn’t tell you. They have no idea.
I think if people got away from the idea of pegging success to a certain dollar amount and just let the dollars work, they’d be surprised at how far they could get in life.
I remember when I was in my early 20s, I thought making $30,000 was a lot of money. I thought, “If I could just make $30,000 for the rest of my life, I’ll be perfectly fine.” That’s how naïve I was in my 20s.
But the people who are truly successful aren’t worried about nickel-and-diming everything right now.
I’m of the opinion that I want everybody to make money. I’ll pay my way as I go—I’ve got no problem doing that.
Then you see people saying, “Well, I don’t want to pay that.”
I say, “Well, okay, you don’t have to, and I won’t do the work. No skin off my back. I’ve got other things to do—it’s deer season, by the way. I’m gone.”
The point is, if you stop obsessing about how much you make, you’ll make more.
That’s Greg’s mentality. He’s like, “Okay, I have a base of this. All my bills are paid. We’re fine.”
By letting go of the rat race mentality of “I need a 3% raise” or “I need a 5% raise,” you stop worrying about how much money you make, and you’ll make a whole lot more because you’re not thinking about it.
That’s where Greg’s mentality is different. He’s like, “Yeah, I can make X amount of dollars on salary, but at the end, I want to have $50 million in the bank.”
That’s how you get there. He’s not creating a job—he’s creating an environment where his money works for him.
That’s the difference between Main Street and high finance: they’re looking at money as a tool, and people on Main Street look at it as a necessity.
Doug Holt 1:08:51
Are there resources for the Main Street guy to go out there and learn about how to deploy money?
Brian Boyd 1:08:56
It’s hit or miss.
I listen to a podcast every Tuesday. It’s called The REI Tax Podcast for CPAs or something like that. Every Tuesday, they talk about taxes and how to move things. It’s fascinating to me—it’s where I geek out a bit.
You need to start listening to people who do this on a regular basis. There’s a podcast called Bigger Pockets. If you’re involved in real estate investing, I’m sure you’ve heard of it. They’re great.
They have a 30-minute podcast, the same format every time, and it tells stories about people who’ve done something different to achieve success.
That’s great, but what you need to do is talk to the people they bring onto the podcast.
See how they’re doing it, what they’re doing. It will open up your world. You’ll realize, “Oh, my view’s been here, but it should be here, and it’s out there.”
I say it’s in front of us all the time. I listen to podcasts all the time. This is going to be a podcast, and you have to go to the people doing the things that are going to help you.
Yes, you’re going to kiss a few frogs—it’s just part of it.
Can I tell you how many CPAs I’ve been through? About five. The first one wasn’t up to the task. The second missed a $50,000 payment I made to the IRS—I caught it. Another didn’t file my self-employment tax, which was a $30,000 problem. Another just flaked out.
I’ve got a really good one now, but it took a lot of time and frogs to get there.
I tell people: go to the people who know what you don’t know. The only way to know what you don’t know is to educate yourself.
Listen to podcasts like this. Listen to Bigger Pockets. Attend seminars.
I do seminars occasionally, and people inevitably call me afterward. They say, “I didn’t know you could do that.”
I tell them, “Nobody knows you can do that because it’s just not talked about.”
To your listeners: there are ways to increase the size of your toolbox, but you’ve got to go out and talk to the people who are going to be the tools in that toolbox.
Doug Holt 1:12:04
Gotcha. Get out there. Network. Talk to people who are in the trenches, actually doing the work itself.
Brian Boyd 1:12:09
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, much like anything in life, you don’t know what you don’t know if you haven’t been exposed to it, right? Just go talk to people.
Doug Holt 1:12:21
Yeah, it’s always interesting to me. When I was in my 20s, I was lucky enough to be surrounded by a lot of wealthy and wise people. At that time, I had three companies. One of them was a private training studio.
It’s where people who are out of shape go to get back in shape. They spend all their time making money.
One guy came up to me and said, “The reason I come to you is the same reason I go to my dentist. I know I need to eat less and work out, but I don’t do my own dentistry. I don’t try to do it myself. I come to an expert to get the advice and services I need.”
It’s similar with something like wealth building or tax strategies.
I think, often as businessmen—myself included—we think we can just figure it out. But it’s much more complicated.
Doug Holt 1:12:04
Gotcha. Get out there, network, talk to people who are in the trenches, actually doing the work itself.
Brian Boyd 1:12:09
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, much like anything in life, you don’t know what you don’t know if you haven’t been exposed to it, right? I mean, just go talk to people.
Doug Holt 1:12:21
Yeah, it’s always interesting to me. Somebody, when I was in my 20s, I was lucky enough to be surrounded by a lot of wealthy and wise people. And somebody who, at that time, I—one of the—I had three companies. One of them was a private training studio, right? So it’s where people who are out of shape go to get back in shape. They spend all their time, you know, making money. And one guy came up to me and said, “The reason I come to you is just like I go to my dentist. I know I need to eat less and work out, but I don’t do my own dentistry, you know? I don’t try to do it myself. I come to an expert to get the advice and things that I need.”
And it’s similar with something like, we talked about wealth building or tax strategies. You know, I think often, as businessmen—myself included—we kind of think that we can just figure it out. And it’s much more complicated.
Doug Holt 1:17:10
I think it’s going to play really well. I mean, that’s why we call our one-year membership group “The Brotherhood.” It’s for that reason—the men come, they work through their stuff, they’re growing. Like I said, we work with businessmen, and that’s our bread and butter, the guys that come through this movement that we have. And as I told you before, we’ve hit over 1 million downloads of this particular show alone. So the men out there are looking for those answers that you’re talking about.
Brian Boyd 1:17:10
Well, if I could encourage your listeners to, hey, call your buddy up. Go have lunch. I have a breakfast once a week. Like, I try to see one of my friends a week. And, yeah, I’m busy. I’m at the office a lot, and then I just want to go home and hang out with my family. But, like, next week, I’m gonna have breakfast at 7:15 in the morning with a buddy who’s at another law firm. And I love this guy. Like, he’s great, he’s so smart, and he’s always got things going on, and he’s super humble. And then I’ve got another buddy that I talk to as much as possible. He’s a judge, and he was my big brother in the fraternity, and we were just having a blast with this last election. Just like, “Did you see this nominee? What’d you think about that?” And, you know, it’s not something I can do even with some of my law partners that I see 12 hours a day, every day. We have that connection.
And I think men need that connection. And so it goes a step further when they come to me and they’re like, “Hey, I’ve got a problem.” I’m like, “All right, what’s going on? How can I help?” It’s like JD. JD got me into jiu-jitsu five years ago, and it’s his fault I need a shoulder replacement now. But JD was going through something legally, and he texted me last night at eight o’clock, “Hey, can we talk?” I’m like, “Yeah, I’ll call you first thing in the morning when I leave the house, and we’ll talk.” So on the drive into the office today, we’re talking, and he was like, “Oh, all right, this is what’s going on.” I’m like, “Okay, all right, I got it. I got it. Let me call your attorney. Let me walk through it with him. Let’s figure it out. I’m there for you, man.”
And JD also got me into hunting. And that’s another story, but, you know, he was like, “You’re working too much, you’re wound up, you’re way too tight.” He was right. I was. He took me turkey hunting. I’ve never looked back. I have never looked back. I probably have too many shotguns—well, if you could ever have too many, right? But, yeah. I mean, he got me into hunting and jiu-jitsu, and so, like, we talk all the time. His mother passed away last year, and this is where, like, your little group comes back together, like to support each other.
So I saw another buddy who was in my wedding, and he showed up to the funeral, and, you know, we got to catch up. And I could call that guy right now and be like, “Hey, I need to see you.” He’d say, “Okay, when and where?” And I think we need that. We need that sense of community, camaraderie, brotherhood. I enjoyed it in the Marines. I enjoyed it in the fraternity. I enjoy it with jiu-jitsu, with those guys, and I enjoy my little group that I stay in touch with. We need that as men. And it makes me a better lawyer, it makes me a better friend, it makes me a better husband and a better father. And the more we can rely on one another, the more success we’re going to have.
And I gotta tell you, man, having success with a friend is so much better than having success by yourself. And people don’t understand that. It’s like… people tell you all the time, “You don’t understand what having a kid is like until you have a kid.” And they’re absolutely right. It’s life-altering. It changes the way you look at everything, it changes the way you think about everything, and your joys are so much better because it’s not about you anymore. It’s about everything else.
And I was telling you that hunting story before we went live, about my son shooting that red stag in Patagonia. And I was excited. I was stoked over that. Plus, I was like, “Ah, yeah, buddy, but you did this. You did this. I’m so excited for you.” And, yeah, that’s what it’s like having your own tribe and helping your tribe out. And you’re calling it a brotherhood. I’m just calling it whatever, you know. These are my friends, and these are who I want to spend time with, and I want to do business with.
So, you know, to your listeners, I would say, “Hey, keep your tribe close, man. Keep your brothers close. Work with them. Help them.” Because it all comes around. I believe in karma. You know, you put out good, you’ll get good back. So, yeah. But I know you’ve got some other questions you want to ask, so let’s get to it. Man, what other things you got over there?
Doug Holt 1:22:07
I’ll go through two more here, and this one is from Steve. Steve says, “I’m interested in the best corporate tax structures for my home building business in Oregon. Also, the best structure to bring in a partner for individual builds, as well as for a subdivision development. I have both of these coming up.”
Brian Boyd 1:22:29
Yeah. So the way I would approach that is, you know, I would talk to him and ask, “What is your goal? Is your goal to share profits? Is your goal to just do this deal? Like, is this a long-term play? Do you want to partner for the duration or just on these deals?” And then we would look at probably a JV structure or maybe even a GP/LP structure to put that together.
We do have structures in place, and we charge flat fees for these structures because we just do them over and over and over again. It’s just kind of a plug-and-play. Now, there are some that we have to tweak and make more bespoke for specific deals. But, you know, to your listener, I would say, “Hey, you may want to think about a JV structure if it’s just a one-off. If it’s a long-term play, then I would probably bring in a trust at the top, and then we would create a holdco underneath it. Then we’d set up another managementco over to the side, where there’s a management fee going over to that.”
And then, you know, all sorts of little things that we do to create tax efficiencies, to silo certain projects in the holdco that can then own SPEs—single-purpose entities—for individual deals. And, you know, you could spin those off. You could sell them. You could, you know, do what you need to do with them, but it provides really good flexibility for the individual, and it creates a shield of liability. Moreover, it’s tax efficient.
So those are some of the things that we do. Again, I would need to see the specifics, and I’d have a lot more questions than what we’re just talking about here. But, you know, those are kind of the things that we structure, and we do quite a bit of.
Doug Holt 1:24:23
Awesome. I’ll give you one more, Brian, then we’ll let you get going. This one also happens to be from O’Brien. He says, “Curious about the idea of putting all assets in a living trust managed from Cyprus for the below tax benefits: income tax exemption.”
Brian Boyd 1:24:39
Uh, no, I’m gonna stop you now. I’m gonna stop you now. Look, I know about these Cyprus trusts, and don’t is what I’ll say. Don’t. There are other ways we can figure this out, and we’re utilizing a lot of trusts created out of Nevada right now just because of, you know, kind of getting you off-grid. So you create a trust in Nevada. It’s a 365-year trust. It has generation-skipping properties to it. We can make you a beneficiary of that. It can then hold a couple of other entities. We can pay you out as an employee, but all your assets go into the trust.
We’d use Nevada and Wyoming, and we’d structure that together so you have pure anonymity here. And then you don’t own it. All your assets are in it. You’re getting the use of those assets, and it’s tax-efficient for you. We make you an employee of one of the managementcos that gets a salary generated from the businesses we have in your trust and your holdco, and it does everything you need it to do.
People out there talking about Cyprus—stop. Just don’t. Don’t do that. Years ago, it was the Isle of Man. Now it’s Cyprus. I’ve heard of other people talking about, you know, American Samoa. I’ve heard people talk about South Africa. Like, guys, look, stop. Stop. I mean, just stop. It’s not worth it. Like, would you stop? Just stop. No.
There are other things we can do, and we do them all the time. We have a lot of clients that are foreign nationals who come to us for real estate deals, and, you know, they ask us to structure things. We’re like, “We’re not going to Cyprus, man. Just drop that idea right now. We’re not doing that.” There’s a better way to do this. We can do it. And you know, you don’t have to go to Cyprus. We’re going to protect your assets. We’re going to take care of it.
So, one of my partners, John, used to work for a very eccentric billionaire, and this is a conversation we can have offline because it’s fascinating. But John has a lot of experience dealing with ultra-high-net-worth people because he worked for this billionaire who has this massive empire. And they had Department of Defense contracts, they had Department of Interior contracts, they had all sorts of things. And we’re talking one day, and he’s like, “Well, you know, we could do this because I’ve seen it work, and it’s been tested by the courts. Let’s do this for this particular client.”
I’m like, “Okay.” And so we start pulling it apart and putting it together and talking to the client. And, yeah, it’s a very simple structure, and it’s here in the States. You’re not going to go to jail. And, you know, there’s no Burisma money coming in. You’re going to be safe, you’re going to make money, and you’re going to be okay. But please, to your listeners—Cyprus? Don’t. Don’t. Just don’t.
Speaker 1 1:28:03
You probably wouldn’t be surprised at the backchannel talk that I hear at these events. We throw events all over the world, and we’ll have, you know, 50 businessmen together chatting about the different trusts and things that they’re doing and all sorts of plans going on.
Brian Boyd 1:28:16
I know. And, you know, as somebody that deals in trusts a lot—and LLCs, corporations, JVs, and syndication deals—I will tell you that every time somebody comes to me and says, “Well, I’ve got this offshore structure,” I’m like, “How many different countries are we dealing with?” And they’re like, “Sixteen.” I’m like, “You don’t think that looks weird to the IRS? No? That didn’t ring a bell?”
So, yeah, I tend to err on the side of simplicity. There’s a simple way to do a lot of very complex things because the slippage through all these different trusts and all the mechanizations—why? Why are you doing that? It doesn’t make sense. And there are a lot of things you can do. Now, also, people’s goals are different, right? Some want asset protection, some want to just not pay taxes, and some want other things. But at the end of the day, this idea of going to Cyprus or the UAE or any of these places—I’m like, “No, no, no.”
I mean, just don’t do that. Because until you’ve fought with the Department of Justice—they don’t have a budget. There is no budget that you could possibly mention to the Department of Justice if the particular case is big enough. Who’s the guy—Sam Bankman-Fried, right? I don’t know what coin he had, but he had a coin. The guy was a billionaire, like $30 billion at one point, and giving to all sorts of politicians. And that didn’t help him. He’s sitting in prison for 20 years. That did not help him. Don’t think it’ll help you. So I’m just putting that out there. Like, let’s color in, you know, between the lines, and let’s get you something that’s going to help you and achieve your goals. But please—no, no, no Cyprus. No Cyprus.
Doug Holt 1:30:36
No shortcuts. Well, I think we’re always looking for that quick fix, you know, whether it be our health…
Brian Boyd 1:30:44
I was joking with my wife. I’m like, “Honey, did you see where that OnlyFans star made $43 million last year?” I’m like, “You may not know it, but you’re getting a channel.” And so there’s no shortcut to making it. It’s slow and steady, one foot in front of the other, and have good people around you, because good people make the travel worth it.
Sometimes it’s really about the journey and not the destination. You’ll get to the destination eventually—we all will—but have good brothers around you. Have idea people around you. And I say that every idea is interesting. Every idea has something you can glean from it. Every idea may not be for you. Cyprus? No. That is not for me. It’s not for you. It’s not for anybody else listening. Don’t do Cyprus. But it’s an interesting idea.
Doug Holt 1:31:50
I love it. One of our master coaches—we have a bunch of them all over the world—is from Cyprus, so I’m gonna be giving him a hard time as well. I was joking.
Brian Boyd 1:31:57
I would definitely give that guy a hard time. Like, “What is it about your country, dude?” So, no, I mean, look, I’ve heard about it. I know about it. I’ve read into it. You know, this has the hallmarks of tax evasion written all over it, so don’t do that. But, you know, I know you’ve got some other listeners. Throw one more out there, and we’ll wrap this up.
Doug Holt 1:32:20
Sounds good. Let me go through the thread here. This one is similar. So this is Ryan. Ryan asks, “Any advice for reporting structure when doing business in the US and Brazil? Should I just keep the companies separate? That said, digital marketing and business consulting?”
Brian Boyd 1:32:37
Well, we could do it this way. We could set up a trust—and take this for what it’s worth; I don’t know all the details here—but you set up a trust. You make the trust irrevocable. You contribute the business here in the United States and the business in Brazil into that trust. So now you’ve domesticated the Brazilian business to the US because now it’s owned by the trust. And then you make—did you say his name’s Ryan?—you make Ryan a beneficiary of the trust so he’s getting paid out. And then the trust will file a report with the IRS on its annual return, which is far more efficient than trying to cobble all this together.
So you put it all into the trust, and the trust will deal with it. And he still gets all the benefit of all that, but he doesn’t have any of the liability anymore, and he doesn’t have any of the tax exposure.
Doug Holt 1:33:40
Love it. Brian, you’ve been so generous with your time. It’s been great chatting with you. Man, I love what you’re doing. I’m putting you online. Let the people listening to this know where they can find your book and where they can find you.
Brian Boyd 1:33:52
Oh yeah, guys. So I wrote a book years ago. It’s called A Lawyer’s Guide to Real Estate Investing. Wait—what is the name of the book? Lawyers, Replace Your Income: A Lawyer’s Guide to Finding, Funding, and Managing Your Real Estate. It’s on Amazon. It’s 19 bucks or whatever. And I did that because I’m heavily involved in real estate, and I use real estate all the time. It’s got some good nuggets in there for you.
If you want to reach out to me and book a consultation, there’s a link in my bio on Instagram, and it links to a Calendly, where you can book time with me. I’m on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook. If you want to talk about legal representation, me structuring something for you, or even “GC in a Box” that we have here at the firm, reach out. My email address is bboyd@thompsonburton.com. I’m here every day—unless I’m in court—and then I’m here after court. So if you email me, I’ll get it, and we can set something up.
But, look, I just encourage your guys and your listeners out there to understand there’s no shortcut. Keep your brothers with you for the ride. It’s so much better. And reach out if you need anything. That’s what we’re all here for. We’re just trying to help each other.
Doug Holt 1:35:17
I love it. Brian, thanks so much for your time, man. I really, really enjoy what you’re doing. And gentlemen, as Brian said, keep your brothers close. This is what we’re all about here. This is why we’re on episode over 900 at this point, trying to get that information out to you guys. And we do it all the time.
As I always say, in the moment of insight, take massive action. And Brian’s given you a ton of insights to dive into. One that’s really insightful for a lot of us is, don’t do your own dentistry, so to speak. Right? Use professionals like Brian. You know, we always look for these quick fixes because they sound shiny—maybe that’s the thing in Cyprus or wherever else you’re thinking of—but you’ve got to do the work at the end of the day.
So, thanks again, Brian. Gentlemen, we’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
