Episode #1066
Ever feel like you're switching hats all day? One minute you're the leader at work, the next you're the dad, then the husband, then the problem-solver. And somewhere in all that, you start to lose track of who you really are.
In this episode, Doug and Chris talk about something most men never admit: how trying to show up differently in every area of life is draining you. Not just physically, but emotionally too. And the worst part? Most of us think we’re doing it for the people we love.
This conversation cuts through the noise and gets real about why so many men feel disconnected, anxious, or just plain off. You’ll hear practical ways to stay grounded, reset your mindset between roles, and stop hiding behind the story that “this is just what it takes.”
If you’ve ever told yourself “I’m doing this for my family” but know deep down you’re running on empty, listen in. There’s a better way to lead without losing yourself in the process.
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Transcription
Christopher Hansen 0:00
It required me to show up as multiple different people.
Doug Holt 0:04
There’s always in business you’re wearing different hats and different things.
Christopher Hansen 0:08
Just being authentic.
Doug Holt 0:10
I’m just me. When I’m me, I can communicate better. People listen to my ideas better.
Christopher Hansen 0:15
Well, I’m doing this for them, for them, right? How dangerous of a trap is that?
Doug Holt 0:23
So his wife left this world feeling loved for the first time because he did the work.
Doug Holt 0:28
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the TPM Show. Today we have a special guest, rejoining us a regular here on the TPM Show Christopher Hansen. Chris is one of our program advisors, so he sits in a very unique position. If you’re interested in seeing, “Hey, is TPM the right place for me?” or “What does TPM have to offer?” we have lots of different programs. Chris might be the guy you get on a call with just to see if it’s a good fit for you. But he’s also on the front lines and what I mean by that is he has the opportunity to talk directly to you, the listeners, on a regular basis about what’s going on in your life. You guys share things with Chris that you probably don’t share with many other people. So one, it’s confidential, but two, it gives him insights into the questions you might have that we can tackle on this show. Chris, thanks for being here, man.
Christopher Hansen 1:27
Hey, what’s up, Doug.
Doug Holt 1:28
Another great day. Beautiful day at the ranch a little chilly, though, nippy in the air.
Christopher Hansen 1:33
There’s snow on the mountains, maybe.
Doug Holt 1:35
Yeah, I know, I know. I can’t wait for ski season.
Christopher Hansen 1:37
I’m with you.
Doug Holt 1:37
It’s gonna be fun. You had an interesting topic while we were getting a cup of coffee in the main house. For those who don’t know, TPM owns a 106-acre ranch where we run our events. We’re all in when it comes to mentoring and coaching the men we work with. We were grabbing coffee and you made a really interesting comment that I thought the guys might want to hear.
Christopher Hansen 1:59
I woke up this morning and the way my schedule was set up, it required me to show up as multiple different people. I had family stuff going on, a project that requires a lot of focus in ways that don’t necessarily align with how I want to show up with my family. Then we were coming here to do podcasts so a lot of different hats in a short period of time. I was thinking on the way over, how can I best navigate a day like this so I’m succeeding in all areas of my life without compromising who I am?
Doug Holt 2:47
That’s actually a different angle than I expected, which is perfect. The guys are going to see us go off the cuff, which I love. The hat you’re wearing right now was made by Andrew Grummond shout-out to him, “The Gift.” This is something all business owners and entrepreneurs face, and the men who come to us deal with it too. I’ve owned businesses since I was 21 I joke that I was unemployable but there’s always in business you’re wearing different hats. The problem I see men run into, and I hear this all the time, is they think they can compartmentalize. I thought that too until I learned the hard way.
The Alpha Reset is the easiest way to showcase this. You know, Chris, because you’ve been to one our four-day transformational event that men say is one of, if not the most transformational experiences of their lives. And that’s not hyperbole. We’ve got hundreds of testimonials from men like you, like me, and like the guys listening. It’s experiential. The problem is, when a man says, “I can compartmentalize,” what he’s really saying is he’s shoving things down or hiding behind multiple masks. We all show up a little differently depending on who we’re with that’s natural but the people we’re most drawn to are the ones who are unapologetically themselves. That’s why that bestselling book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F**,* did so well. People want to stop caring so much about what others think. Most of us, though, still show up with masks sometimes consciously, sometimes not.
That’s where the problem starts. When you think you have to be one person at work, another at home, another with friends, that shape-shifting causes stress, anxiety, and drains your energy. I’m not saying we don’t all do it I do too it’s just about how far we take it. Back when I was “Doug 1.0,” I’d show up tired but fake the energy: “Hey guys, how’s it going!” A little fake-it-till-you-make-it, but it was draining. Then I’d go into a negotiation and be “hard-ass Doug,” then switch into creative mode designing something for one of my businesses. That constant energetic switching takes a toll. There are strategies to manage it, which I’ll share later, but first we have to understand what’s really happening what got us here. And what I’m hearing from you, Chris, is that you’ve had to jump between very different energetic states today, each one requiring a different version of you and that’s draining unless those parts are aligned.
Christopher Hansen 6:42
I think that’s the piece for me right now when I say not compromising myself how do I align those? Even having this conversation is really helpful. I had a conversation with my wife about this before I left, because I’m going from the computer nerd in me who’s very focused on systems and coding and building all these things to now stepping onto a podcast, right? So it’s like, what can I do to get myself out of my head? Because that programming exists in a headspace, it’s very logical, and I want to get back into my body, where I’m more able to connect and be more of myself and my personality.
It’s not that I don’t want to show the world my logical brain, but if that’s all I showed, it would be boring. I don’t think anyone would want to listen to that. But my point is, having that conversation with my wife and just sharing with her in the moment “Hey, this is where I’m at right now” immediately helped bring me back into my body and get centered. So I think to your point, just being authentic in that moment of, “This is where I’m at,” and owning that started to shift things.
Doug Holt 7:59
Yeah, so we’ll get to how to get out of it give me the answer and I will. I’ll give you multiple things that you can do, and any guy listening to this can do. We all go through this, man. I still go through it. With practice and awareness, I can catch it faster and realign. I don’t always do it nothing I do is perfect but I’ve got the formula to get there faster. One of the issues with compartmentalization is the difference between the gap and the gain. Oftentimes, when we’re switching roles, it’s because, like you said, “People don’t want to hear the computer logical side of me.” Okay, that’s a story. You’re creating a gap between where you are and where you think you should be. That’s where the mess happens.
When we show up thinking, “I have to be the cheery boss walking into the office,” when that’s not how we feel, it takes a lot of energy. There’s a gap between where I really am and where I think I should be. Then I go to the boardroom “I have to be serious now, I have to show up as a hard-ass or I’ll get screwed in this negotiation.” Again, a gap between who I am and who I think I need to be. Then I go pick up my kids and think, “Okay, now I need to be the fun dad.” We all go through these roles. The problem is, when we have that gap between who we are and who we think we should be, it creates a disconnect. And in that chasm lives the belief, “I’m not good enough.”
Christopher Hansen 10:06
Even the word should 100%. That word alone creates that gap.
Doug Holt 10:11
It does. You mentioned walking in and saying, “I’ve got nine hats on.” Welcome to my world. At TPM, if it were an org chart, I sit in three distinct seats. I sit in the visionary seat Tim used to be the integrator if you use EOS, and now Brad’s stepped in more as the CEO. I also sit as head of marketing, running the strategy, and I sit in a coaching seat. Three very different roles within the same organization. It’s unique, but TPM’s not huge around 36 people. In larger companies, you’d sit in one seat, but when I was younger and starting out, I sat in twenty. Chief bottle washer, janitor, programmer, salesman it was constant rotation. Where I finally found harmony, like on that last call you walked in on, is I was on a Zoom with two other coaches, and I was just me.
When I’m me, I communicate better, people listen better, and honestly, I just don’t care what they think of me. I’m just being myself. Even when I’m leading the call or the meeting, I’m still goofy Doug. I joke with the guys “If you work with me, you’re gonna hear bad jokes. That’s just gonna happen.” Because I love to laugh. But I also used to hold an image in my head of what I thought a high-level coach should look like suit, tight polo, nice watch, sports car. That’s not me. I can do the job really well, but that image isn’t authentically who I am. When I try to live up to that, I create a gap, and in that gap lives the feeling of lack.
Christopher Hansen 12:32
You hit the nail on the head. It’s an energy suck it’s exhausting.
Doug Holt 12:37
It’s 100% exhausting. I face it too. Sometimes my kids want to play and I think, “I should be the dad who always gets up and plays,” but I’m wiped out. I’ve got nothing left in the tank. That’s where habits come in. At TPM, we teach the Alpha Rise and Shine, our version of a morning routine. When I hit that, it keeps me grounded and rooted. I don’t always do it, but when I do, I show up more consistent because I’m more aligned. Whether I’m coding, working with AI, or hanging with my kids, I’m still the same version of myself. The transitions become natural. Beyond that, there are transition routines anchors.
For example, Chris the programmer wears his hat forward. I’ve got a buddy who, when he transitions into dad mode, turns his hat backward. It signals that switch it’s a trigger. You can create your own positive triggers like that. They anchor you and reduce stress. I use this analogy with the guys all the time it’s like bowling with bumpers. It’s easy to say “Just be yourself,” but that’s easier said than done. So we create guardrails. Those bumpers your Alpha Rise and Shine, your Alpha Decompression, and your transition anchors keep you in your lane. Another guy I know wears clear glasses every time he speaks on stage. When he puts them on, he’s “Clark Kent,” the leader. As soon as he steps off stage, glasses off back to himself. Those anchors are like bumpers in life. They keep you aligned and lower stress and anxiety.
Christopher Hansen 15:21
For sure. And I feel like that’s a lot of what I was feeling the stress and anxiety from still being attached to what I was doing over here when I’m in this space. That’s really helpful.
Doug Holt 15:35
Yeah, man. Well, it’s tough. This is the big reason why we, as business guys, are often with our families yet still on our phones because we’re attached, and therefore detached from the people we care about most. I always ask guys to do what I call the “rocking chair test.” Picture yourself at 80 years old, sitting on a porch in a rocking chair, sipping bourbon or lemonade, reflecting on your life. What are the things you’re most proud of? What do you cherish? Every single man except for one, and he gets a special mention always says family. So for the guy listening right now, whether you’re at home, in your car, or on the treadmill, pull up your calendar. What does it reflect? Is your family on there? Probably not. If I looked at most men’s calendars, I’d see work, meetings, appointments, maybe an oil change but not family. And that’s the wake-up call. It’s time to make an investment in that area of your life. That’s what The Activation Method is about helping men find themselves again.
The mistake I see most often is this: men think they’re being authentic only in certain settings, but real authenticity cuts across everything. When I’m me, even in negotiations, I do so much better. Other people come into the room trying to play the “hard-ass negotiator,” but when I show up just as myself with the same knowledge base, the same intention I give them permission to relax and be real, too. Now we can have a genuine conversation, and ironically, that gives me more leverage. Same thing with parenting or being on a podcast. I still make bad jokes, still mess around, but if I start thinking, “Doug has to be this world-class business advisor” or “This episode has to sound a certain way,” I get in my head and create a gap between where I am and where I think I need to be and it never works.
And here’s the kicker when guys compartmentalize, going from one task to another while suppressing parts of themselves each time, that pressure builds. We all know what happens next. A few days later, something small sets him off his wife says something, his kids make noise, he steps on a Lego and he explodes. Then comes the shame, guilt, and anger cycle, which just deepens the gap.
Christopher Hansen 18:29
Man, I’ve lived that. I’ve lived all of that. You mentioned business and getting caught in the cycle that really hit. What came up for me is the story men tell themselves when they look at that calendar. “I’m doing this for them.” I hear it all the time.
Doug Holt 18:59
Yeah, and I’ve even had my wife call me out on that. Most guys have. So if you’re listening and this resonates, take this as your warning shot. I remember telling my wife, “I’m working so hard. I’m doing this for us, for the family, so we can travel, live well, have freedom.” And she looked at me and said, “You’re doing this for you. I never asked you to start another business.” And she was right. They rarely ask. We do it for ourselves, but in our darker moments we justify it by saying it’s for them.
If you asked your wife or your kids what they really want, they wouldn’t say, “Dad, I want you to work more so we can buy a new truck.” They’d say they want more time with you. Maybe a vacation but with you. The truth is, most men don’t know how to be present. They don’t know how to love themselves or sit in stillness, so they hide out in work. I’ve done it too. I still catch myself doing it sometimes. I love working I love building, creating, competing, helping others. But when I start saying “I’m doing this for them,” it’s never during my best moments. It’s when I’m tired, stressed, or triggered.
That’s when the resentment starts: “What’s my wife doing all day? The kids are in school, the house is clean…” and then I catch myself oh right, she’s pursuing her own goals and dreams just like I am. It’s just not my best day. And this is where men go wrong they compartmentalize again. I hear it constantly: “I can handle it, I can compartmentalize.” No, you can’t. I’ve worked with men at the highest levels, and none of them can do it effectively. Something always gets sacrificed most often, themselves. They give up their own peace for a story.
Christopher Hansen 23:08
I had a conversation with a guy today who came into the call a little insecure. He said, “Hey, I’m old, I’m 66,” and then started describing his situation. And it was that same story you know, built the business, sacrificed the family. His relationship with his wife had reached the point where, at nearly 70 years old, she told him, “I don’t want to do this anymore.” He was floored. To this man’s credit, though, he immediately started taking action. He’d been listening to our podcast, reading books, and came in saying, “I know I need help because I have no idea how to navigate this.” My point in sharing that is he asked about the ages of the men we work with. I told him we have guys his age all the time. They just exist in different eras of life than the ones who come to us in their 40s. He’s an empty nester, and I explained that he’ll meet men in The Activation Method who are in the same stage and also men who are trying to prevent ending up there.
Doug Holt 24:41
I love that story. It reminds me of a gentleman I coached during his Alpha Reset this was before we had the TPM ranch, back when we were running events in Sunriver, Oregon. He was a dentist in his late 60s or early 70s, and what happened was, during his time in the program, his wife became severely ill and eventually passed away. But what moved me most was what happened in between. His daughter she was in her 40s hadn’t really had much of a relationship with him. After he went through the Activation Method, something changed. He reconnected with himself. And as his wife was dying, he showed up for her for the first time in their marriage. His daughter told him later, “You gave me the best gift you could ever give. Mom said that for the first time in her life, she felt loved.” His wife left this world feeling loved for the first time because he did the work.
When I hear men say, “It’s too late for me,” I think of that man. Because now he’s close with his daughter, close with his grandkids, and he’s found peace. He was a good man doing the best he could with the tools he had. TPM just gave him new tools and to his credit, he used them. We can’t do the push-ups for you, but he did them. He changed his life, and his entire family tree is forever different because of that work.
Christopher Hansen 26:36
There’s really no greater gift you can give your kids than showing them it’s never too late to change. I had that same feeling of “It’s too late for me” when I was 23. We all have those stories “I should’ve done this earlier,” “I missed my chance.” But when you show by example that it’s never too late, that’s one of the most powerful lessons you can pass down. To prove it to yourself, too to know that even after years of struggle, you can still come out the other side that’s a gift.
Doug Holt 27:20
Exactly. That’s the hero’s journey. We see it all the time. The men who come to us in their 60s often say, “I wish I found this earlier.” The guys in their 20s who join rare, but they do hear that from everyone else: “Man, I wish I had this when I was your age.” The truth is, it’s not about when you start. It’s about what you do with the time you have now.
And to your point, Chris, I just saw this earlier today on Slack our internal chat. One of our program advisors, David, shared something amazing. We get a lot of women reaching out to us, by the way wives calling in because they love their husbands and want to help them. There was one couple, married 50 years, and she called to see how she could get her husband into TPM so they could reignite their spark. Fifty years together, and she’s still fighting for their marriage. That’s incredible.
Gentlemen, if your wife ever points you toward this podcast or encourages you to reach out, she’s not trying to change you. She’s saying, “I love you. I see your greatness. I want more for us.” That’s love. Celebrate that. When my wife first hinted that things were off, I took it as criticism “I’m not good enough.” I got defensive, shut down, tried to prove myself elsewhere. But I was compartmentalizing. In business, I was crushing it. At home, I wasn’t. And I thought it was all working until it didn’t.
Christopher Hansen 29:55
My experience, and it might, I had a similar conversation with my wife. We were in different eras. We'd been working on our relationship together for quite some time, and she came to me and just said, "Hey, there's an aspect of you that's not showing up. I need this change." I found TPM within weeks of that conversation, but I look back on that moment, had she not done that, I don't know that I would have ever changed or that I would have ever taken the step to grow in the way that I needed to. And I mean, I look back then on that particular moment of her being willing to, you know, whatever it is, hand you a book, give you a nudge, send you a podcast, whatever, as an absolute gift. I mean, changed my life.
Doug Holt 30:45
That's awesome. I'm glad she did that too. Selfishly, I think when we look at this whole, this whole concept again of men feeling like they have to wear different hats and do different things, we could change that paradigm to, I get to play in different arenas, right? And just be me. One of my earliest memories of meeting you, because I met you at one of our team retreats, is you're in, like, you're in shorts and a tie-dye T-shirt, right, to a company retreat where you didn't know anybody. Like, you are authentically just you, like, "Hey, here's me." That's what you came across to me, which was very alluring, right? Because all of us want to feel so comfortable in our own skin that we can just be us.
But we all also have this little voice in our head who's like, "Okay, on the podcast, I have to dress up," or, "I have to look this part." And that's true somewhere, like, you don't want your, if you're going through litigation, you don't necessarily want your lawyer to show up in shorts and a tie-dye shirt all the time unless he's just really freaking good. But you expect him to show, or your doctor if you're having brain surgery. There are certain expectations and roles in our lives; that's just cultural. But for our day-to-day, we just show up as the people we are. People can tell, you know. And they love the authenticity, especially now in a world of artificial intelligence, and you can't tell what video’s what and who's doing any of this stuff. You know, I'm sure there's somebody watching us on a clip that's wondering if it is just AI-generated.
Christopher Hansen 32:15
I mean, there's more and more of that. It's, I mean, it's so funny you say that, though, with the lawyer, because, I mean, that's the lawyer I want. I want the lawyer that's able to show up in shorts and a tie-dye and be a lawyer, you know what I mean? And that says something.
Doug Holt 32:30
It does. It does. One of the wealthiest guys I knew at the time, he was really wealthy, but most of the wealthy people I knew back when I lived in Santa Barbara would dress down. They were like Mark Cuban. I've heard this, Robert Herjavec of Shark Tank he runs an IT company, but he's been on for 10 years or so with Mark Cuban and he said when he first met Mark Cuban, he's like, "Who's this guy wearing jeans and a T-shirt? This is ridiculous." And he was wearing suits. And he tells the story. He goes, "Oh, he wears jeans and a T-shirt because he can. He's so successful, smart, like he can just do whatever he wants to do." And it's because he was that guy doing what, just being himself has allowed him to make so much money. He's become a cult of personality of sorts.
And so I think bringing this back to you, or to anybody, to myself or anybody, it's how do you and I'll give you a couple more practical skills but how do you take Chris, the guy who's showing up as the husband, the father, then take that into the guy that's solving analytical problems with HubSpot or something that you're working on, to the guy who comes here to the ranch to shoot this podcast. Like, the more you can be Chris in the tie-dye and the shorts, you get that line of just be you. You can go through all of those. You're using different parts of your brain or things. Again, giving the bumpers right on the bowling alley. Do your Alpha Rise and Shine. Do your decompression. You can do a decompression, but when you task switch, so when you switch roles, you can do a reset, right? And a lot of us need that conscious thing. You've seen me; Colton, who's doing the producing of this show, has seen me do this 100 times. I literally just got off a meeting. You both walked in or Colton and you walked in separate times while I was on a Zoom call.
And then I come in, talk to you both, you guys, and come in here and do this. If I have to switch who I am, I can never do this, right? But if I'm myself, I use different parts of myself to do it. And sometimes I'll take a minute to pause or break and reset, if you will, or decompress before the next thing, especially with coaching because that could be heavy. The other thing that I do is chunk my day. What I mean by that is, if I have a really heady project like you're working on I think what you're working on is HubSpot or some AI thing, knowing you I try to make that like, this is the block. I'm doing that in three hours, six hours, so I don't have to task switch or role switch between those things. Not always possible, I get that, but the more forethought I have as a practical tool again, the bowling alley bumpers coming up the more I do that, the more I can stay in that energetic state, stay in that space, and do that versus switching. So what a lot of guys will do is say, "Hey, Friday's finance, Wednesday's marketing, Monday is, you know, leadership meetings and all my meetings with my staff." And so now they're in that role of always thinking meetings, strategy. Wednesday comes, they're thinking marketing and sales. Friday comes, now they're in the spreadsheets. And so that's a trick that you can use to stay in an energetic flow between things going on. Again, it's not always possible. Right before this, you know, I too had a very important meeting that a lot of serious stuff got discussed, and then I get to come in here, and this is just fun for me.
Christopher Hansen 35:51
Same. And it just creates that boundary too, right? Just holding yourself accountable for me, holding myself accountable to that boundary. I was like, "Hey, this is a three-hour block," and then turning that off, because I love work also.
Doug Holt 36:04
And that's the thing. And sometimes you just got to what you did was so awesome, man is you communicate with your wife. And I know your wife, so I know this is true for her. She doesn't mind me speaking for her, but she knows what's going on with you, so it's just whether you call out the elephant in the room, like, "I'm so anxious today," or, "I'm stressed for some reason," or, "I'm overwhelmed," or whatever it may be. When you call it out, then you're including people in your life. They're like, "Okay, this is why Chris is on his phone." I'll even ask, I'll ask my kids, like, "Hey, is it cool if Dad I got to shoot a quick message. You guys good with that?" And sometimes my daughter will be like, "No," you know. Or, "No problem, Dad," you know. And so when I let them know, they know why I'm on my phone. You know, I don't always ask permission. I might just say, "Hey guys, Dad's got to do this. I got to check some messages, and I'll be right back." That's the key thing that most people miss. You got to tell them when you're going to close the loop if you're going to do it. When you talk about presence at home, it's a really important factor.
Christopher Hansen 37:06
It shifts the entire energy of the room, and that...
Doug Holt 37:10
Awesome, man. Well, I love this question as always, and I appreciate all you're doing bringing in the men and, you know, running some of the other advisors to make sure guys find out about our programs. And it's been really interesting that we've had a very large influx of wives communicating and reaching in, and wives are buying the book for their men for the holiday season. And I think it's just absolutely amazing. We're seeing more and more people getting resources for friends and family members than we've ever seen.
Yep, gentlemen, like I said, this is what I went through. I went through the same thing. And if you're a business owner or somebody working in business which all of us do, right? Most of you probably aren't just sitting at home making your millions watching TV we have to attain certain roles. There are certain roles in our lives. You're a father, you're a husband, you're a friend, you work in whatever role you work in at work, and you probably have five or six other ones. I coach basketball, I take kids to Jiu-Jitsu. We have all these roles.
And what I'm going to warn you is, instead of compartmentalizing those roles, how can you be the authentic version of yourself through those roles? If you don't know how to do that, get help. There's nothing wrong with it. My experience is most people don't know who they are, and I've had to do a ton of work to figure this out who I am and I'm still working on it. I think the Alpha Reset, the program that we put on, is the best in the world, and I'm very biased, but I would change it if it wasn't.
So if that's something you're interested in, get on a call with an advisor like Chris. These are real guys, just like you, and they're going to tell you the honest truth. "This is going to work for you," or, "Maybe you should try something else." But whatever you do, take action. As I always say, in the moment of insight, take massive action. And this is no different. We'll see you next time on the TPM Show.
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