Episode #863
Ever feel like the world is bearing down on you, and it’s all on you to carry the load? You’re definitely not alone in that. Today’s society heaps a ton of expectations on men—be the breadwinner, the protector, stay in shape, be emotionally available—the list goes on. But what happens when it all gets too heavy to carry?
In this episode, we’re digging into the challenges men face right now. We’ll be discussing a powerful story about a woman who lived as a man for a year, only to find the experience so crushing that it ended tragically. This story serves as a stark reminder of the immense pressure men face, and we’re also going to talk about how these rising expectations in relationships, work, and society are leading to increased stress, anxiety, and even suicide among men.
We’re bringing in some real heavy-hitters to help us break this down—Mo Parks and Mark Hainsworth. Together, we’ll dive into how men can navigate these modern demands, redefine their roles, and find the support they need in a world that too often expects them to be invincible.
So, tune in. You’ll learn practical steps to redefine what it means to be a man today and how to tackle these challenges without losing who you are in the process.
Hungry for more?
Head over to our BONUS page for special access to some of the deeper tactics and techniques we’ve developed at The Powerful Man.
Also listen on:
Transcription
Tim Matthews 0:00
She spent a year living as a man. She was very big into the feminism movement, a big advocate of it, and then she spent a year living as a man to understand the male experience. So she went undercover as a guy, and she found it so challenging that by the end of that year, it significantly impacted her mental health, so much that she ultimately committed suicide. Her view. Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the demands being placed on you as a man today, you are being asked to provide or at least contribute financially, as well as being there emotionally, while at the same time being in good shape and being present and being a great father and well, if you feel like there’s a lot of demands placed on you, this episode may be a good one, because today we’re going to discuss the pressures of modern masculinity, the story of a woman who lived as a man for a year, and how to navigate these challenges. So stay tuned for power, powerful insights, and strategies to help you balance these demands. So today, I am joined again, by Mrs. Mo Parks and Mr. Mark Hainsworth, our head of coaching, our head of sales, the advisors, and gents, thank you for being here. You look very unimpressed.
Mo Parks 1:45
Talked about the woman who had been a man for a year. I wasn’t sure if you were talking about me or someone else.
Tim Matthews 1:51
Don’t be stupid. I would never say that to you first. No, but let’s start there. Have you heard about this story? No, I haven’t. Okay. Do you know what Doug and I were working with a coach 18 months ago, and he shared this with us, he was saying how important it is the work that we are doing in the world because there are so many pressures and demands being placed on men today that is really difficult to keep up. And at the same time, we’re in this, we’re living in this, in this time where women have an increasing level of independence, which is fantastic that I think that has its pros and cons, personally, in some respects, because my take on that, the unhealthy take on that, is one where it’s become it comes from a place of, hey, well, I don’t need a man. Men are not needed, along with the stuff in the media around toxic masculinity, or the crimes committed by men, be it violent crimes, sexual crimes, and so on and so forth. Damning statistics around the role of men in society, I get that. We’re also kind of leaving behind this era of the patriarchy where everything was kind of domineering and led by men, but because of this rise of femininity, feminism may be a better word. I think that combined with everything I’ve just said, is putting a lot of men in a really difficult position, and it’s not really getting spoken about from my perspective.
You know, there’s a lot of the men I speak with, and what I feel there are these pressures these days to be able to provide financially, or at least contribute financially, regardless of how what financial level the woman contributes. The man still has a desire, and there is still an expectation said or otherwise, that he will contribute in some way, financially. At the same time, I’m expected to contribute emotionally. I’m getting told that, oh well, the intimacy is shifted. The Marriage isn’t working. What am I going to do to lead that? So I’m expected to then create an environment for the woman in my life where she can be seen and heard and, you know, all those things. At the same time, I’m expected to be in good shape, because that’s now the standard for guys. Right at the same time, it’s now looked down upon if I’m going to be drinking at the same time I’m getting messages about being a great father at the same time, I could go on and on and on, right, and in a lot of specs. I like it. I like the direction we are headed in. I. As men, and at the same time, I’m choosing to opt in, right? Equally, I do think there is, there’s definitely a conversation being placed upon men that isn’t really happening, that gets to be looked at, and it’s the rising demand on men in today’s society. So I’m gonna tell you about this case study. So the story is of a woman called Nora Vincent. But anyway, she was a journalist, and she spent a year living as a man. She was very big into the feminism movement, a big advocate of it, and then she spent a year living as a man to understand the male experience. So she went undercover as a guy, and she found it so challenging that by the end of that year, it had significantly impacted her mental health, so much that she ultimately committed suicide.
Mo Parks 6:03
Well, yeah,
Tim Matthews 6:08
she was so disillusioned by how tough it is to be a guy that she didn’t want to be in this world. I mean, a woman who is big into feminism, a big advocate, then gets curious. I wonder what it’s like to actually be a guy. I’ve got all these assumptions and whatever. Let me go and do that. Oh, oh, this is what it’s like. This is too much, and that impacted her mental health, so much that she committed suicide.
Mark Hainsworth 6:55
You know what’s coming up for me as I listen to that, I am guessing it’s just an intuitive thing. She realized what it’s like to feel isolated.
Tim Matthews 7:06
Yep, that’s definitely,
Mark Hainsworth 7:09
It’s like men are isolated. The guys who come to the movement, start feeling isolated. They’ve got this partnership with their wives. For whatever reason they’re judging it to be not the way they want it to be. They come to do their Activation Method, and then they meet a bunch of other guys who are in the same situation. One of the massive things that they get by being in these groups is they realize one, I’m not alone. And it comes to us time and time and time again. As a coach, I’m not alone. Somebody else has got this same stuff going on. I’m not alone on the ice. We’re breaking the isolation. We’re hoping for that feeling of isolation to be broken, but it’s never described as that. It’s like, I’m not alone.
Tim Matthews 7:56
Well, the reason why I wanted to have this conversation with you two is because, you know, Mark, you have got almost three decades of working with men and doing this kind of work on yourself, so you’re very close to this, and I think you will have seen a lot of trends in the past 30 years. Mo, obviously, you’re a woman, so I really, think this is a very interesting conversation for you to be in, and I’m really curious to get your perspective on this from a woman’s perspective as well. Yeah, as to like, is this new to you? Like, what came over considered?
Mo Parks 8:35
Yeah, so what came up for me is I probably coached and worked with women for like, seven, eight years, and I don’t think, I think everyone would be surprised to hear that story, because what’s pushed forward by feminism is also telling people how much women have on their plate. If you think about the new Barbie movie, there was this emotional, moving scene that pretty much every woman knows and cried in because it was a girl sitting on the ground with this realization of, like, essentially what the Barbie movement did was tell women that they had to be in shape. Big boobs look good, get a job, also take care of the kids, also cook, also clean, basically do the entire stay-at-home mom job, while also then doing the working job. And any of the women that I know who work full time at home, it’s already impossible, and then they go to work for like a day or two, they’re like, this is, I don’t know how you guys do it, that is working, and it’s like, we don’t like that ends up being the answer is, I think the desperation that you’re describing for men that a lot of women would be surprised, because, well, all we’ve heard and the narrative we’ve heard from culture is exactly the same interesting.
Tim Matthews 9:48
So I’m hearing you say, here is this struggle and these demands that and currently being placed on men, and the expectations you’re saying that. Historically, women have had similar expectations, but different present.
Mo Parks 10:05
Yeah, presently, I would say present. That’s it’s interesting, and it makes me feel more common and connected to men. Because I’m like, Oh, you too. And it’s just this idea of, oh, that’s a people thing. Now, high pressures, the wanting to live to this high and I’m like, has that ever really gone away? Because even when people didn’t have washing machines, and they talk about this in the book, the ruthless elimination of hurry, even when people didn’t have washing machines, and they were hand washing their clothes, they felt like the pressures were too high on them. And then washing machines came, and guess what? They filled their time with more and then more things came to make it easier. And guess what? They filled their time. And the expectations changed as more time became available because there’s this expectation that your time should always be full. You should always be doing something productive. You should be always doing something effective. And I think that both men and women have experienced that, been victims of it.
Tim Matthews 11:00
Yeah, I can see that. I think something that’s probably happened for men within the past five years or so, I would say, curious to hear what you guys think about this. There’s been a dramatic increase in the portrayal of what it looks like to be a successful guy in media, be it films, magazines, or whatever. And this has been this explosion of guys who are stylish and in shape and ripped and successful and all sorts. And I think women used to feel what I know guys have spoken to me about this. Guys have spoken to me about the unrealistic standards that are now being placed upon them based on the ideals that are being portrayed in the media. I think women used to experience this, be it through 1015, 20 years ago, as there was an increase in air touching, airbrushing, airbrushing, yeah, you know, plastic surgery, all sorts. And I think that put women in a position where they also felt something similar to what men are feeling now, hey, this is an unrealistic social norm that society and the everyday person think I should be, but it’s just not possible. I think guys are experiencing something similar, but coming to you Mark, when do you feel as though this is a thing? Do you see this?
Mark Hainsworth 12:35
I think at one stage I did, and then I just decided to ignore it, and doesn’t work for me. It was the time when I was going through hell. Looking at myself and going, you know what? I’m not sure I want I feel like I was brought up to be okay with what I got. That was part of my upbringing. So I didn’t have to have the big cars and the fancy suits and what have you. Because I’d never had it. I was kind of comfortable with that. So I think it depends on what the expectations of what, what expectations have been set by our parenting, schooling, and then the media. And I think today, what’s going on in the Facebook world, for instance, how people are advertising on their Facebook pages, a life that looks absolutely fantastic, and the reality underneath is it’s probably not like that at all. So, but here’s where, where is that pressure coming from? 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when I got divorced, I remember my ex-wife used to, she used to read Cosmopolitan. I think shows how much interest I was taking. But I think why she reading that doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. And then I realized, Oh, she’s, she’s measuring herself against something, yep.
Tim Matthews 13:58
Hmm. So you feel it?
Mo Parks 14:00
Do you feel the pressure?
Tim Matthews 14:03
The pressure I feel is the pressure I put on myself. Okay, and that’s what I said at the beginning. I’m okay because I’m choosing into it. I like the idea of being the best I can be. I love the challenge of being emotionally available to Amelia while at the same time embodying masculine traits, because that in itself, is somewhat of a dichotomy, being able to be emotionally available to her and empathetic with her and sensitive around her, because she’s so sensitive, while at the same time embody your masculine traits like strength and leadership, it’s a challenge knowing when to do what right. It’s a dance, yeah, and I get it wrong at times, and the easier I am on myself. I. The more I surround myself with similar men who I’m able to talk with and say, Hey, do you find this tough? They say, Yes, we can talk about how we navigate it, while at the same time continuing to hold ourselves to a high standard, because we want to be Integris, because of how we see ourselves as I would much rather be in that on that journey, than a journey where I hold myself to a low standard, the idea of being in really good shape. I feel the pressure of that more. I don’t feel like I am. I’d like to be in better shape. Okay, the shape of the great ship. But I’m also happy with the path I’m on with my health, and I’ve come to learn over the past 10 to 12 years that I optimize my life for happiness. Everything I do is around. How can I enjoy myself? Now, we do travel a lot, right?
Doing what we do. So therefore, if while I’m traveling, there’s some food I want to sample because I’m somewhere new, and it means that I have to break what I’d usually eat, I’m going to break it because I take more value in having the experience than in exercising the discipline in that moment, like, what? What’s the point? I’m here for a good time. I want to live my life and live my life and enjoy my life, but in doing so, there’s going to be a sacrifice there, which is, I’m never going to be in great shape while I’m going to choose to have that kind of value system, but I’m okay with that, and I’ve been able to grow in my own self acceptance and confidence that if anyone was trying to say to me, Hey, well, you should do this, that or the other, I just don’t fuck off. I maybe wouldn’t say it initially, but it’s my life, and if you’re not, at least gonna ask me questions first about why I’m doing something, and instead make assumptions and try and tell me how I should live. That isn’t gonna work for me, whoever that may be, the media, whoever, whatever. So I feel it. But I feel it from choice, okay, you determine it, yeah? And I think the other thing, the providing financially piece, yeah, I feel that. But again, it’s through choice. You know, I made a choice. Weirdly enough, I’d always imagined being in a relationship where, when I was older, where my partner wouldn’t have to work. If she wanted to work, that’s different, but she wouldn’t have to work, it’d be a choice. And then Amelia stopped working maybe seven years ago or so, and it was a conscious choice, because what we decided was, if you were to work based on what you could get paid and compared to what we could lose in terms of freedom and the ability to do what we want when we want, that additional money wasn’t worth it.
We valued our freedom and our experience, and I think this is what is really important to be on the same page with your partner, because Amelia and I both really value the experience that we have in life. That’s what gives us richness experience. So I don’t feel the financial pressure as much that more more so comes from a place of I see a vision for myself and for 2pm and the impact we want to have. And it’s harder for me to sit on my hands and deny that than it is to just surrender and let go and allow that to be so I don’t feel the pressure there as much, but I do see this a lot with our men. I see the pressure for them to be this impeccable, and they put the pressure on themselves. But I see them do it. I see them put this impeccable standard on themselves that is incredibly hard to maintain, and it’s almost a standard of perfection. And not only that, in the beginning, they’re not good at being compassionate with themselves, so they place this impossible standard on themselves, which they’re inevitable, inevitably going to falter with, and because they don’t have the compassion and because they struggle to do things for themselves and reflect, have positive self talk, it becomes this impossible task that we’re never going to win at.
Mark Hainsworth 19:54
So they feel like they’re failing well, they’re chasing the Forever moving target. Yeah, and what’s driving that? That’s the. That’s the thing that’s found. And I think for every man, it’s probably different. I mean, I if I look back at the way I was brought up to your point, you know, women, do, do, do, do, do, do. And I remember Sunday afternoon, my mother would cook lunches. All right, cooks on strike. You sort yourself out for the rest of the day, and she would just go and do whatever she wanted to. But that was a familiar pattern. I look at Debbie at the moment, she just goes all the time. I’ve never said, heard her say, I’m on strike. Where does that come from? And it must. It’s bred into this, bred through the family dynamic. But also Tim. I’m just wondering, you know, 85% of our client base, the members of the of the movement, they’re American and the it seems, looking at America from the outside and comparing it. I mean, I lived in Chicago for three and a half years. I’ve lived in South Africa. I’ve lived in England. Very different countries have got different expectations as well, on the men.
Tim Matthews 21:00
I think that’s true. I was just reading through the research here, and that was one of the things. I was just looking at, two things that stood out to me. One is, as women gain more autonomy and equality, which is fantastic, the traditional roles are shifting. I think some of the guys struggle with that. There’s increased expectations, but at the same time, the pressure to meet the conflict and expectations can lead to stress, anxiety and depression. I think many men struggle to cope with these internal, external pressures. But the expectation, I think, is societal too. A big part of it is and that will change to your point, country to country,
Mo Parks 21:42
I wonder if the rates of anxiety depression are shifting from women to men, or if they’re both just getting more stressed.
Tim Matthews 21:50
That’s a great question.
Doug Holt 21:51
Yeah, because if they’re gaining more autonomy, you think it would go away, but as we kind of it’s not about they’ll never find freedom in the jobs and the autonomy, similar what we’re talking about the treasure on the other podcasts of just that’s not where satisfaction is going to be found. That’s not where joy is going to be found. So everyone is everyone just getting more stressed out because more expectations are asked of everyone. Hey, guys, I wanted to interrupt this episode because it’s dawned on me that many of you guys aren’t aware that we actually have a book on how to save your marriage without talking about it. Now, 1000s of men have read it, and they’ve reviewed it, and I want to give you the opportunity to do the same if you’re interested in grabbing it. It’s a short read, but it’s helped a lot of men, just like you, and maybe you’re not interested in The Activation Method yet, but this is a small entry point that can really turn things around for you. Go over an Amazon we have it priced as cheap as Amazon will let us, and that way you have a resource that you can use right now to start getting some results in your marriage. Now, let’s get back to the episode.
Mark Hainsworth 22:51
Well, I’ve kind of got a question for you on this on this one, as I’ve watched feminine or female equality coming in, and more and more women in high powered positions in the workplace, and then around the mid 30s, Okay, time to get the babies in. Suddenly you’re having to straddle the two worlds. As a woman, you’re having to straddle the two worlds. So you’ve wanted this equality. Now in the men’s world, equality means you’re in the workplace earning the same amount of money as we are. That’s what equality means. But I think in the woman’s world, the equality is something different. I don’t sure the women actually wanted to go to work and compete with the men. They wanted to get out of the situation that was set up by this patriarchal society. When the woman steps into this men’s men’s definition of what equality is in the workplace, career, directorship, etc, etc, etc. She’s taken on all this extra what would be the male equivalent of that? What is it that the women need more from the men in order to support that part of the day, my mother and part of the day, I mean the in the in business, I mean, commerce.
Mo Parks 24:01
So what do women need from men to support that? Yeah, so.
Mark Hainsworth 24:04
So really, the question is, what’s the difference between a stay at home mom and her experience of life and a working mom?
Mo Parks 24:11
Oh, gosh. So I stayed at home with my kids for eight years, and then I worked full full time, and thankfully have someone else at home watching the kids during these times, and I will tell you the stay at home job is harder than any job that the men can take on, I promise you. Now, to be fair, we have four kids, so it could be due to that, but because the amount of brain jumping you have to do and the amount of roles you have to hold your your the cook, you’re the medic, you’re the conflict resolution, or you’re the I mean, you’re just constantly switching roles. And if you know in business, when you have to switch roles constantly, it’s such a brain like it takes 15 minutes to truly switch roles. But you’re doing that as a woman and as a stay at home mom all the time. And so I think what women who just stay at home, they want to rest from that. They want to rest from that role jumping. And as a working mom who’s also like at home, they want the roles to be shared.
Mark Hainsworth 25:09
They want so they want the amount of workloads.
Mo Parks 25:11
Yes, yeah, okay, because there is this expectation of, well, and it’s, it’s a very, it’s not a great belief system, but you wanted to work, therefore you got to work and do the mom stuff. And it’s like, no, no, that’s not how this works. It’s I wanted to work, and I’m working for the family, not just because to satisfy my own woman desire. But it’s like, these are our kids, not my kids. These are our kids, and this is our money, not my money, our money. And so it’s like, if that’s the desire is we want to have equal value, both in as a parent, like, how many times are you out in public and the guy is with the kids, and someone comes up to them and says, Oh, you babysitting for the day? It’s like, No, I’m freaking watching my kids because I’m a dad and I watch my and but it’s there’s so many things like that that happen if, if, if a woman is out with a kid, people will come up to her and be like, their feet are cold. You need to put socks on. Meanwhile, if I’m if a dad goes out with the kid, they’re like, Oh, you’re holding the kid. That’s so cute. Do you see when I say, like, it’s not, it’s not anywhere close to so there’s just so much more for a woman to hold if they’re working and staying at home, and the expectations are so much higher, because it’s like, well, you wanted to go to work. It’s like, you mean, I wanted to do what most people do where they work.
Tim Matthews 26:31
And I’m curious more, do you believe that the demands on the rising demands on men in today’s world, yeah,
Mo Parks 26:40
I mean, I think that’s a that is the exact result of it, right? It’s me saying I want to split that role. I want to split that parenting role with you. That’s a demand that wasn’t asked previously of men, and in my opinion, I don’t think it was a correct demand.
Tim Matthews 26:57
Okay, what a Do you see an increased demand being asked of men in their role as a husband? Yeah,
Mo Parks 27:03
yeah. I think that it was husband. In previous generations, it was husband. Come home. You should have dinner on the table. You eat. Wife cleans up while you watch TV and I women puts kids to bed. Man goes to bed, says he has to wake up early for work. Now it’s man, you come home and you split everything.
And now it’s like, Hey Dad, we want you to be a dad. Hey husband, we want you to be a husband. Hey brother, we want you to be a brother. Hey son, we want you to be a son. There’s just way more roles that you’re being asked to take on.
Tim Matthews 27:52
What impact do you think that could have on men, given the fact they typically don’t open up as much as women do?
Mo Parks 27:59
Yeah, it’ll be totally flooding. Yeah, it would be totally emotionally overwhelming. It’ll be, I mean, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s a lot. I mean, I empathize for that, for a guy who grew up, especially if they watch that type of culture with their dad expecting, because that’s where you get your expectations. That’s what you expect when you grow up, is, well, my mom always cooked for my dad, so why aren’t you cooking for me? Right? And then to be thrown into a world where we’re like, no, no, that’s not what’s happening anymore. Like, while I believe the current expectations are more correct than they used to be, I also have a massive empathy, because it’s, it’s, it’s hard. It’s a lot of roles,
Tim Matthews 28:42
I think, as well just finding that woman’s name, again, it was Nora Vincent. You know, she went undercover as a man, not as a husband, not as a father, not as an entrepreneur. Yeah, she was a single man undercover. Like imagine stack, and that’s the impact it had on her. Yeah, it’s fascinating. Isn’t when we start to piece these pieces together, because suicide highest it’s ever been. I wonder whether that also coincides with these increased expectations on men. Yeah, I don’t know honestly, but I wonder whether it coincides with that and coincides with the fact that historically, men also haven’t been very good at opening up. We did the last podcast episode mark on apologizing, and I was saying to Mo, I don’t think women understand the impact it has on a guy when a woman doesn’t apologize, just like a woman wants a guy to apologize directly and take ownership so she knows it won’t happen again. And he’s nodding, by the way, a similar thing happens for a man. On that men don’t admit it, but when a woman doesn’t apologize, it has an equal and opposite reaction than what happens for a woman when a guy doesn’t and but, and if, so if, if that happens twice, a guy’s response will just be to whatever
Mark Hainsworth 30:23
shut down, withdraw, yes, disconnect himself from his true emotion, yes,
Mo Parks 30:29
yes. So I think there’s it’s plaguing our company, our culture, I mean, our Yeah, our world,
Tim Matthews 30:36
So point being is, I just wanted to kind of have you be able to see that reflected because it wasn’t just a point for me on a Colin on his head, but if we consider that that’s how men will, or men typically handle a situation where they’re unhappy with an emotional grievance, which is to Hold it in withdraw, whatever, then we bring the conversation to the increased expectations and how men will typically handle it, and then we consider suicide. I mean, it’s, it’s a melting pot of just trouble. It’s, it’s crazy.
Mo Parks 31:21
So can I ask you guys a question as men, just from um, because I hear all that, and I think I have learned a lot from just sitting and hearing a man’s perspective. I’m like, Man, you do hold a lot that is really hard, and I wonder if there’s an understanding or what do you guys think women have held for
Tim Matthews 31:46
before I go to that one thing I also shared with Mo before, what do you think you’ll resonate with? Every guy wants to be acknowledged for the effort that he’s putting in? Yeah, does it doesn’t need a pat on their head like a little kid. All he would like to hear is they see how hard it
Mark Hainsworth 32:04
was, a sniff of appreciation, 100%
Tim Matthews 32:06
Yeah, guys won’t say this either, yeah, but they want it. Every guy wants it. And I think if guys were to get a little bit of that, the idea of handling these increased demands, I think, would come a hell of a lot easier, okay, because it’s almost like it’s an unwritten expectation. Are we going to do it because we can, but in doing so, it’s heavy, it’s hard,
Mo Parks 32:40
so we need support, yeah?
Tim Matthews 32:43
Well, acknowledge
Mark Hainsworth 32:44
Thank you, yeah, yeah.
Tim Matthews 32:46
It is just thank you, yeah, just like women had want to thank you for looking after the kids or being the stay at home mom, right? Same is true of of guys.
Mark Hainsworth 32:56
Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting that you touch on that, because, like, we’re going to glowing. Descriptions of what Debs does for me, but the thing that she does the most is Thank you. Does Thank you, Mark and wow, and I don’t. And the thing is, in my culture, I never really grew up with that much, and to hear that is like, Oh, something warm lights up inside 100%
Tim Matthews 33:23
Every guy will say the same, yeah, because the unconscious story in every guy’s mind is, am I doing a good enough job as a provider and protector and just that little thank you is Yeah? Because we never know. We never know, do we?
Mark Hainsworth 33:42
No, it’s an uncon I think it’s an unconscious,
Tim Matthews 33:47
Primal, primal
Mo Parks 33:49
Do you think it’s because I’m sure that a lot of people out here are not getting that from their wife. What would you say to those men? Where do they need to get it from? If they’re not getting it from their wives,
Tim Matthews 34:02
you’ve got to be around other guys.
Mo Parks 34:04
Oh, I thought you’re gonna say yourself,
Tim Matthews 34:07
You can, but it’s that that’s a good shout. But I think being around other guys, like, if guys were to have this conversation we were having right now about just wanting to hear an apology and why, and just wanting to thank you and why. And it been tough, and it been hard, even when guys get together, most guys won’t talk that way, because this is like almost an unwritten Guy Code. But I’m strong enough to do it. I don’t want to say it’s hard, because then I look weak. But every guy thinks and feels it. And what we have in The Brotherhood and in The Powerful Man movement is a group of men that are willing to have those conversations with one another, and therefore they don’t feel alone, and they are held by the other men in that space. Yes, they’re held they’re inspired, they’re held accountable. All sorts happen, and that has to happen for a guy, and he has to have those spaces in his life, just like a woman has to go and meet with the girlfriends and just let it all out. Right? This is the equivalent for men.
Mark Hainsworth 35:19
Yeah, I worked with a guy, lovely psychologist in Cape Town. We were running a weekend for kids, and I’d been out to a new site. We didn’t know where we’re going, but I’ve been out to check it out, and I just took photos of the various turning off signs and put it on, sent it on an email. This is how you get there, just logistics. And he arrived and, and he said, Can we just sit down? He said, Somebody, somebody sent these, this things, you know, photographs of where I’ve got to turn. And he said, was that you Mark? Yeah, of course it was. But somebody’s taken the care to make sure that we all or get here somehow. And he said, and I just want to say thank you. And I wonder if anybody else would like to say thank you to Mark and to me, it was like, What the fuck you doing? As they all said, Thank you. It was the most exquisitely painful moment of my life. The tears just flowed down my only having this conversation now that realizing that’s what he touched on as a guy.
Tim Matthews 36:20
You seen when someone says, Thank you, thank you and appreciate it. It’s like a woman seen when a guy holds space and validates and all that stuff. A guy is seen in that moment where it’s Thank you.
Mark Hainsworth 36:38
It’s huge what’s and I’m curious, what’s it like to have gratitude directed at you? What’s it like for a woman to hearing a thank you?
Mo Parks 36:45
I appreciate you. To me, doesn’t feel like it resonate. I can feel it resonating with you, and I don’t feel that as much resonates more for a guy, it does. It would be the female.
Mark Hainsworth 36:56
It would be, um,
Mo Parks 37:01
like coming up to me and me saying something really hard, and you just being like, something around safety, or something around like emotional safety, or something,
Tim Matthews 37:17
I think, like emotional safety is a bigger thing for women, and acknowledgement is a bigger thing for men. Yeah, yeah, which kind of makes sense. Because if femin, the feminine energy, wants to have that safe container to be itself, I know what it is. I would say that the masculine energy, which loves challenge, just wants to be seen for its effort in the challenge.
Mo Parks 37:41
So you guys do this really well. So when I come in to say a retreat like this, and I have, I’m projecting a particular image, and you guys can see underneath it, and you’re like, but like, what’s really going on? Then I’m just like, and it’s just that like melting of like being seen when I was trying to hide. And that is just so safe, because it’s like you saw it before I even let you see it, and you cared to see it before I wanted to show it.
Mark Hainsworth 38:15
We get you, yeah, okay, I can. There’s a safe that’s actually safe place for me to land. Yeah, I’m hearing Yeah.
Mo Parks 38:20
It’s like this wall that I want people to break through, but I don’t want to ask them to break through it. It’s like you not wanting to ask people to tell you thank you, but when they do take the time to care and see you and say thank you, I’d say that’s the equivalent. How
Tim Matthews 38:36
I’d like to wrap this up is take it towards this idea of redefining masculinity, because I think that’s a lot about what this is doing, these increased demands, and the men rise into it. And I think it’s a great thing. I think simple. Thank you. Would be nice in the process, but I love it, yeah, I love the journey we’re on as men, to be better fathers, to be better husbands, to hold a better quality of space, to be a more rounded leader, I think is needed in the world. I think it’s a fantastic thing. I’d love for every guy to be on the journey, because the world would be a hell of a better place for it, right? So I just want to really highlight that point, because in doing so, that journey of redefining masculinity, it means that emotional intelligence, empathy, collaboration, all these great things are going to be included into what it means to be a healthy man in today And tomorrow’s world, and in doing so, helping people to live a healthier and more balanced life as well. And I get at times, you know, men are gonna struggle with this, and it is like walking a bit of a tight rope.
You know, the line is fine and you’re gonna fall off. So I think the importance for having men around, good quality, men around. Uh, good quality routines where you can catch yourself when you do fall off. Good quality routines, we can also talk, learn to talk to yourself in healthy ways so you can actually acknowledge yourself and take solace, which was kind of your point in the fact of what is going well and the efforts you are making. Because it does that tightrope requires focus and balance and the ability to adapt to maintain stability and again, like I was saying, at times, men are going to feel like they’re failing. They just are. They’re going to struggle to meet the conflict and expectations. They’re going to feel like they’re failing. But as Nora Vincent experienced, it’s really important to not navigate this journey with loneliness. It’s key. So three practical steps, one each will give for what a man can do in order to embrace the increased expectation. Let’s change the verbiage. There three things a man can do to successfully accept the invitation that he has to play a higher level in today’s world.
Mark Hainsworth 41:15
I think there’s something healthy about getting a baseline that I can compare myself with. What’s going on for other guys? Because I’ve just met so many men who just keep pushing themselves and pushing themselves and pushing themselves and they don’t what are they? They’re going against an unconscious baseline. Let’s get a practical baseline. What’s it like for you compared to other fellas in the room?
Mo Parks 41:39
Other men in the room, beautiful. I was thinking, develop gratitude so much so that when all the expectations come, they’re little waves compared to the space that you’ve already held in your heart for all the good in your life, almost like you’re you’re you’re competing with the incoming expectations, with this wave of gratitude, so that it doesn’t feel like a giant, giant burden, like counter it, plan that it’s coming, and fight against it with a lot of gratitude to successfully
Tim Matthews 42:17
accept the invitation, do so in a way that enables you to run your own race. I think about that example I gave about traveling running, to have the experience and eat the food, and that’s a good one, right? Rather than just choosing to be disciplined, because I should be disciplined, what brings me the most joy of value is experiences. Yes, I still want to be able to be healthy and fit and all that stuff at the same time, when I’m on my last on my deathbed, I’m going to look back and think I’m really glad I had that discipline, or I’m really glad I had the experience. For me, personally, it’s the experience, but that comes from knowing myself. So get clear on what it looks like to run your own your own race within this and then definitely be around other men. Seek support, incredibly important, and establish clear boundaries in your personal and professional life and self care within that and given a few here, but also embrace the opportunity to really improve your emotional intelligence, because that’s really the journey ahead for guys on this path. It’s all about that emotional intelligence, be it as a father, be as a husband, be it as a leader, whatever it may be. And it’s amazing opportunity, like it’s an amazing time to be a guy and to be invited to play another level and only that, be able to have the opportunity to be around a lot of other men, they’re actually living it and making it a reality. So yes, a lot of demands, but equally, it’s a great opportunity as well. So guys, thank you for joining us on the TPM show. As you’ve heard from these fine people, accept the invitation. Find a way to make it work. Find a way to get those little thank yous whether it’s given to you by yourself, by someone you love, but either way, rise the challenge, because you can do it, and it’s worth it. We’ll see you next time on the TPM.
