Episode #959
Ever feel like you’re doing everything “right” but still not getting what you want—from your wife, your business, or even yourself?
In this episode, I sit down with Gary, known in The Powerful Man community as the Gentle Warrior. He opens up about how he went from being the classic “nice guy”—quiet, accommodating, but secretly frustrated—to a man who leads his life with purpose, clarity, and confidence.
This isn’t a story about a perfect turnaround. It’s about doing the real, messy work. Gary gets honest about the anger and shame he didn’t even know he was carrying, how he woke up to the truth of a marriage built on obligation, and why ending it was the most loving thing he could do for them both.
But the most powerful shift? He stopped trying to earn love—and started showing up as a man who already knows his worth. And that’s when everything changed.
We talk about what it’s like to be seen and respected by other men, how community accelerates growth, and why volunteering at the Alpha Reset hit him harder than his own Reset did. You’ll also hear the unexpected way he met the love of his life—when he wasn’t even looking.
In this episode, you’ll get a front-row seat to what it really looks like when a man stops hiding, owns his story, and finally takes the lead—not just in his relationship, but in every area of his life.
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Transcription
Doug Holt 0:00
So there was a—we went to someone’s house. We were interviewing him and his wife. And the guy said, “I saw this thing, and I said, I’m going to invest in this program.” His wife said, “Well, how much does it cost?” “It costs X.” “Well, no, you’re not spending that money.” And he—so what she was—she’s telling the story to Colton and I—he was on the stairs, turns to her and goes, “I’m doing the program.” And she goes, “That was so fun—effing hot,” because he took charge.
Gary 0:25
Yeah, there’s my man. He is in charge, and he’s on a mission. And I’m proud of that guy. That’s exactly what it is. I admire that guy right now.
Doug Holt 0:44
Hey guys, welcome back to the TPM Show. Once again, we are greeted with an amazing guest—Gary “The Gentle Warrior” Lester. Gary is here with us once again.
Now, I know a lot of you guys have told me personally that watching Gary on the podcast with his partner Heather previously was one of the most inspirational podcasts you guys have actually seen. In fact, I just heard that—we’re just coming off The Alpha Reset here at the TPM Ranch. If you don’t know, we have a 106-acre ranch where we run events exclusively for TPM.
And I’ve asked Gary to sit down with us and just have a conversation. Guys, some of the areas I know we’re going to cover in this conversation are ones that you are going to want to listen to. It’s going to be a great one. And as always, Gary, thanks for being here, man.
Gary 1:30
Oh man, awesome to be here. Thank you for having me. Awesome to be here again.
Doug Holt 1:33
I love seeing you lit up. Real quick—was The Alpha Reset you volunteered for—I know it’s a lot of work—was it worthwhile?
Gary 1:41
Oh my gosh, The Alpha Reset. What can you say about The Alpha Reset?
You know, I did my reset almost, you know, two and a half, three years ago almost. And to come back and support these guys—we got the kitchen duties and stuff, make sure they’re all fed, make sure the coaches are fed—but to witness and participate in the process with these nine men, watching them transform—man, it was emotional to watch.
It’s messy. It’s beautiful at the same time. Met some of the guys Monday night for dinner—they’re not the same guys. No, they’re not the same guys. The smile, the joy in their heart—you know, they come in, they’re quiet, withdrawn. One guy—you’re looking to briefly—just couldn’t hold his gaze. Another guy was so intense—just anger and just frustration, frustration. And come back to see the tears in his eyes, and he says—I want—at one point in the process, “I don’t know how to love.”
And talking to me afterwards, he goes, “Now I know what love is.” Just to see that, to feel that, to see it—see a man come alive, to find his heart—yes. You know, it’s just—I get emotional just talking about it. We, the volunteers and the coaches, we feel that, you know.
And I remember after night two, I woke up in the middle of the night—I don’t know what time it was—and just some of the memories, powerful memories from that day—I was just crying in bed. Just the struggle that these guys are struggling to emerge. And when they finally do—oh man, so beautiful.
Doug Holt 3:13
They look like different humans, right?
Gary 3:14
Absolutely.
Doug Holt 3:15
And it’s all that—I think it’s all that stagnant energy and the things that society has put upon men and people in general. But then to have them release and actually find their true power within themselves and who they really are—it’s like a refining, right? For some guys, it’s— they’ve never found it. But for some men, it’s like, “Okay, I knew who that guy was in my 20s or so—and now he’s back.”
Gary 3:37
Yeah, maybe things got layered on—beat out of him, tired, repressed, whatever—and you withdraw because of the whatever, whatever reason. And then they—it’s like they’re reborn.
Yes, it’s just—come out, come out of their shell, come out and come back to life. You know, they go into this dormant state—inactivated, as we call it, you know? And then they—and then they come to life. It’s beautiful.
Each man, their own unique journey. No two alike. Each man has different, different, different situations. And to watch the coaches masterfully guide the man through—they don’t give him the answers, they just guide him to the answers that he has within himself.
Doug Holt 4:16
Yes, it’s a great experience. And I wasn’t there coaching—I was a little jealous. I always tell people, like, you want to be there, right? Because you know how magical it is.
Gary 4:26
It is magical.
Doug Holt 4:27
It is. It truly is. Well, thank you for being a part of that again and walking alongside these men.
Gary 4:33
You’re welcome. Thank you. And what an honor it is. And for anybody that’s in the movement and wants to volunteer—is thinking about volunteering? Oh, please do. It’s gonna charge your jets.
And you—to be there to support these men through their process. If you’ve been to Reset, and you know what it’s like—what a gift to be there for a man and hold space for him as he’s—same terrified, similar terrified guy, knowing what’s coming—and then to support him and hold space, give him love and support, and allow him to open up—it’s beautiful.
Doug Holt 5:08
Well, that’s why you’re the brother’s brother.
Gary 5:11
The brother’s brother. That was a surprise. That was a surprise. So…
Doug Holt 5:15
For the guys listening to this that aren’t aware—so men in The Brotherhood and the Inner Circle, which are two of our one-year mastermind programs—they vote for the man that they feel has shown up the best for himself. In other words, he’s doing the work and shows up for his fellow men, the other men, the participants, and someone who’s inspiring. And they get to vote, and they voted for you.
Yeah, the respect—getting voted by your peers, so to speak…
Gary 5:44
Man, that was—I was a complete shock. We were in Breckenridge at the retreat, and everyone was surprised you did it the first night—get presented the award—versus the last night. And Lee Jack was presenting the award. I’m like, “This is odd.”
Doug Holt 6:02
He was excited. “Can I give it to Gary?”
Gary 6:05
Yeah, and then doing the lead-in, and I’m like, “Ah, who’s it gonna be? Who’s it gonna be?” And then I heard my name. I’m like, “What?”
And of course, I was touched. You know, moved to tears. What an honor to be seen. To be seen by so many men that are doing the work, so many men that are on their journeys and putting in the reps and everything—and for me to be the guy that they see as inspiring? I was—talk about humbled, honored, speechless. Yeah.
And as I said that night—thank you. Thank you to all the guys who voted for me. And I wouldn’t be who I am today—I wouldn’t have had the transformation and all the changes in my life, the wins, the shifts, the turnarounds—I wouldn’t have had that if it wasn’t for every interaction I had with each man, who I learned from and inspired me and gave me courage to take actions that maybe I was afraid to take with myself and my relationships.
And so I thank every man in this movement—the coaches, everybody that’s invested in me—and it’s a privilege to receive that award.
Doug Holt 7:26
Well, you’ve been in the movement for three years…
Gary 7:30
Almost three years. I think it was April of ’22 or something like that that I hit the ad and then went into The Activation Method, like May or something of ’22.
Doug Holt 7:43
Yeah. You had an amazing The Alpha Reset coach.
Gary 7:45
I did. There was this guy called Doug “The Wizard.” It was—it was fun.
Doug Holt 7:49
Yeah? For me. I’m glad. I’m glad it was fun for you. It was a lot of work—for me.
Gary 7:59
You did the work, right? That’s the difference. Man did the work.
Doug Holt 8:03
Yeah.
Gary 8:03
Thank you for leading our group of guys through that process. Every man stepped to the line.
Doug Holt 8:08
Yes.
Gary 8:08
Showed—every man transformed. And nine great men came out of that Reset.
Doug Holt 8:15
Yeah, absolutely. And you guys did do the work. And just as these men here did, right? It’s great to see them.
And I said this the last podcast we did—because the last one I did was with two of our coaches that went through—and what a unique experience to have them, as well as another staff member, who we asked—we invited—to attend. You know, for those guys to allow themselves to be seen and vulnerable in front of their peers or coworkers, right?
Gary 8:40
Bosses, even. And we had two coaches and a staff member on this one. And they—they felt like just one of the guys. They had to work at holding back their position and coaching status or whatever—staff status.
But, man, they showed up. Each of those men are—they’re not the same men that went in as coaches. They’re not the same men that went into this process.
This process is so unique and so transformational. There’s a lot of immersive experiences out there that people could choose from. And some of these guys have been through several of them. But nothing like this. Nothing like this.
What TPM has is uniquely suited to help a man step into his power.
Doug Holt 9:28
Yes. That’s why it’s The Alpha Reset, right? And you’ll be coming to the Alpha Rising, which is our next one coming up, yeah? April.
So, if you had a little change through these last three years.
Gary 9:41
Yeah. Of three years—Gary three years ago versus Gary of today? Yes, there has—there has been change. All of it good. Good, all of it good. I, you know, coming through The Activation Method, I was trying to save my marriage. You know, I’d been married three and a half years or so at the time, and it wasn’t working. I was a nice—I didn’t know this thing about this term “nice guy.” Always such a nice guy. But there was a “nice guy syndrome.”
And the book No More Mr. Nice Guy describes it to a T, right? And I was that classic guy. So I married when I was a nice guy, and my wife wanted me to marry her. So I said, “Oh, okay,” you know? And I can do this. I’m at a stage in my career where I can provide. I’m not worried about finances. And you got a daughter, and she needs a dad. I can step into that role, and I can provide these things.
And in exchange, I’m gonna get a lover. So the whole thing was built on transaction to begin with. And when promises made that were not kept—for whatever reason—and my lover wasn’t there for me, I became very anxious, and I went into a dark place and felt like the ground just gave way underneath me.
And then, you know, COVID didn’t help any, but, you know—that was just the tip of the iceberg for us. Anyway, I tried to save my marriage, and, you know, your ad popped up. I was scrolling through Facebook, and I clicked on it. And then I listened to you for a couple minutes tell me my story—of exactly what I was going through.
And so I clicked and talked to the reps. Came into The Activation Method, which was—what? Eight-week coaching program? I believe Franco was my coach. Shout out to Franco. Shout out to Franco. A wonderful coach. He sees me. He sees us. And he invests in us, and he loves—loves us.
So after The Activation Method, I started making the changes during The Activation Method. And I started to see where I was not showing up. You know, I started to get the tools. Started to see how important it is to take care of myself. Started to see how, you know, the key needs of a woman—to be seen, heard, and understood. You know, all these—all these things, all these tools—they’re not unique, not new creations, but they’re just not—they’re not available.
Guys aren’t—it’s not routine that we’re taught these things. So I’m so glad I found it. After The Activation Method, I joined The Brotherhood for a year. And basically it’s like, “Okay, I’m gonna implement these things.” I went to the Reset. The first thing—you join The Brotherhood, you get to do two trips. You know, hey, I get to go to the trips around the world with these guys—it’s great. First one has to be the Reset. And okay, whatever that is, I’m gonna do that, right?
And November of ’22, came over to Oregon. This was before you guys had the ranch. The rental house there on the river. And Doug, you took us through a three-day—you and Mark Smith took us through a three-day intensive, immersive experience.
And I went through my own transformation, and I was faced with the exorbitant amount of shame and anger that I was carrying that I truly wasn’t aware of. And how it was so baked into my person and my mindset that I didn’t realize it was there.
And working through, back through all that stuff—uncovering it, letting it come up, grieving over the fact that it’s there and grieving over—once I knew the effect it had been having on my life and those around me. And the anguish, and the grief, and then the hope that comes—the freedom, the peace, and then the hope and the vision that comes out of that and the moving forward.
Just kind of going down into the depths of the unknown within me—the pain within me—and then having that release, letting it go, yeah? And it just—kind of reclaiming me. And wow—most transformational experience of my adult life.
I mean, I had an encounter with Christ when I was 28 years old when my first marriage failed, and I surrendered, and I found the Lord. This—I found me. I found me. And I believe God brought you guys into my life so that I could experience that and start walking in the power that’s within me.
Doug Holt 14:40
Thank you.
Gary 14:41
Yes, you’re welcome. So that was the Reset. And then I did two years in The Brotherhood and several—like five—trips.
Doug Holt
Yep.
Gary
And those trips are so amazing—to get 35, 40, 45 guys from around the world—guys who are all striving to improve their marriage, their relationships, their businesses, their growth—mind, body, spirit.
And just the organic conversations that happen—there are no coincidences. The conversations that happen are meant to happen. They are meant to happen. And when we come—I personally come away with half a dozen to a dozen of these golden nuggets that are like, “Ah, I needed that right now.”
Doug Holt 15:27
Yes.
Gary
“I needed that.”
Doug Holt 15:27
Yeah. And such a great group of guys—men like yourself, right—that they don’t know each other from Adam, so to speak, right? And then they get together, and you could have guys talking about sophisticated business models and also guys talking about sports or fishing or whatever else comes to mind. And the guys have so much depth that they can go in and out of the levels of conversation.
And it’s usually in-depth conversations, right?
Gary 15:54
Yeah. These are the—I mean, you get some of the—I don’t know, this group of guys in TPM, I mean, we get together, you can have all—all year long—you can have all these surface-level conversations with anybody.
But it just so happens when 40-plus guys come together, those conversations do not stay surface.
Doug Holt
No, no.
Gary
They don’t. Everybody’s like—they’re hungry to go deep with one another.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
And it could be something like, “Hey, I see your health routine. I mean, what are you doing? It’s amazing.” People are sharing their health experiences, you know, and guys are solving some of their health issues based on learning from each other—relationships, you know, growth, spirituality, business…
Doug Holt 16:33
You’ve inspired me on the health front. I’ve told you that before several times. Now I’ll tell it to a million other people. Your posts—in fact, I haven’t told you—maybe I did tell you, I can’t remember, because I think I’ve told you so many times.
But it wasn’t too long ago—maybe a week and a half ago or so—didn’t sleep. Young kids, you know, up all night. Got up. Was gonna skip the workout. I was just drinking coffee, just not feeling great. You know what, Doug? It’s better to get rest. It’s all that, yep.
And then I go onto our app, and what’s the first thing I see in the app is one of your inspirational workout posts. Take another sip of the coffee—get to the gym.
Gary 17:14
That makes me feel good. Thank you for sharing that.
Doug Holt 17:17
It’s iron sharpens iron.
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
I’m no different—being a coach or whatever. We’re all on our own journeys, right?
Gary
Yep.
Doug Holt
And now you add that you have hundreds of men across—and there’s another guy doing something with his kids that’s like, “Oh, I could be a better CFO—Chief Fun Officer,” right? And better relationships. “I can connect with my wife better, differently.”
Gary
Absolutely.
Doug Holt
I mean, and then again, that’s why you won the Brother’s Brother.
Gary 17:43
You know, I did the health post as an accountability. I know it’s like, I’m more likely to do it if I put it out there and people say, “I’m doing this, hold me accountable.” Like this week, I didn’t, because I was here at the Reset and just up early and helping the guys and stuff. And so that’s why I do it. But it was amazing at the Breckenridge—how many guys came to me and said, “Your posts have inspired me.”
Really, so many guys have said that. You know, one guy came into our pack—our Brotherhood pack—from another, from his TAM group (Activation Method group), and there’s eight guys in that group. He goes, “Gary,” he goes, “You don’t know any of us in our group, but we talk about your posts.”
Doug Holt
Wow.
Gary
How cool is that, man? It was really cool. I’m like, “All right!” So I’m encouraging guys to post, you know, just be more active in the community, because you never know. What I’m going through, someone else has a similar thing they’re struggling with, yeah? And they just need to hear hope.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
Hear hope. Hey, even if the hope is, “Hey, I’m really struggling with…” Okay, the hope is that, okay, I’m not alone, yeah? How huge is that?
Doug Holt 18:53
You know, it’s gigantic. In fact, as you know, we lost a member, right?
Gary
We did, yeah.
Doug Holt
So I brought on—which is coming out soon, or it’s come out after, people listen to this—okay? But I brought on a psychologist to talk about suicide. He specializes in talking to men, and one of the things he said to me—he said, “Doug, it’s hopelessness, essentially, is what happens.”
Gary 19:23
Absolutely. So let that be an encouragement to all of us that are in TPM and in the community to just post a little bit, share our stories. We never know.
I don’t want to be in the stories that we have. Some guys have this: “I don’t want to be the center of attention. I don’t have anything to offer,” or blah blah—all these stories. You know, just take a step of faith. Be vulnerable. Take a risk.
Because the struggles that we have—I always, often say—the crap in our life becomes fertilizer for the next person.
Doug Holt
Oh, I like that.
Gary
Right? You know? And so—and somebody just, like you say—just knowing I’m not alone is a huge one. I’ve heard that a lot. It’s like you get eight guys into The Activation Method group, and, “I’m not alone.” Everybody—all these guys—are struggling with similar stuff.
Doug Holt 20:10
Yep. We’re more similar than we are different.
Gary
Absolutely.
Doug Holt
Everybody’s got this story—myself included—that, “Well, my situation is so unique and so different.”
Gary 20:19
Yeah, “But let me tell you about mine—why this won’t work for me.”
Doug Holt 20:23
Exactly.
Gary
“Yeah, but you don’t understand. My wife—”
Doug Holt 20:26
“Yeah, she is XYZ.”
Gary 20:29
Yeah, absolutely. And that is so true. Just sharing of yourself.
Doug Holt
Well, so I have the benefit in the community—I can see how people view a post. Not who, but how many. How many.
So I’ll see somebody that—three or four comments—but 200 views.
Gary
Okay.
Doug Holt
Okay, so the voyeuristic thing is real. It is.
There’s a gentleman that you know very well—I won’t say his name—but you know him very well, and he’s in the community a couple hours a day, every day. You probably couldn’t find a post from him.
Gary
Interesting.
Doug Holt
And he has that same story: “Well, I don’t have anything interesting to say.”
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
Yeah, but he does. He’s one of the most dynamic men I’ve ever known. His stories are amazing. His lifestyle is amazing. But because it’s not perfect, he doesn’t want to share the imperfections.
Gary 21:18
So think about that. Whatever story that you have that’s preventing you from stepping out into the community on a post—even—say, “All right, are you dimming your light?”
You’re really dimming your light. You are robbing one of your brothers of an opportunity to learn something useful—something that will help this person and his family, yeah? So no matter how benign it is, I’m just encouraging the guys to share. Be part of the community.
Doug Holt 21:52
You have to. You have—we all have it. Man, I have my own, right? I’ll make up like, “Oh, I shouldn’t be on video because my beard—I forgot my beard shaved,” or whatever it is.
Gary 22:04
Exactly.
Doug Holt
But we all have our hangups.
Gary
Yeah, absolutely.
So that was one of the key things in general about coming into The Powerful Man—was the power of the community, the pack, the peer group, going through week to week with a coach, and then the interactions throughout.
It’s like, I can read the book, I can watch the video, I can go to the online class and take my notes and start applying some stuff. But without the community, it’s just going to go so far.
It’s only going to go so far. You don’t get the full effect of any of that until you get a group of guys that are—men—hold each other up. We call each other forward.
Doug Holt
Yep.
Gary
And we challenge each other. And this is where the maximum growth can happen.
Doug Holt 22:45
I agree. And I think guys that aren’t going to our live events are missing out there, right?
Gary
They are.
Doug Holt
I mean, the bonds are just so—it’s one thing to be on Zoom or be on a video call. I mean, that works. The technology has gotten so much better, and you can really connect with people. But when you also meet them in person…
Gary
In person.
Doug Holt
That allows that connection when you’re remote to be even tighter.
Gary 23:07
Yeah. And it’s not only just the conversations—the environment, the energy, the experience that you are in together. We went to Prague, went to Havana, Cuba, you know, Buenos Aires, you know. I went fishing with one of my brothers in my pack, you know, in Buenos Aires—caught a species of fish that was really cool-looking, I haven’t seen before. But it was like, oh, just great experiences, you know.
And those conversations in those kinds of environments really, really anchor things on a really deep level.
Doug Holt 23:38
They do. I’m gonna take it back to you, okay, and your story.
So fast forward to today—when you reflect on the man that’s sitting on this couch here at the TPM Ranch, versus the man that was sitting on the couch in Sunriver (which is where we were for your Reset), which is not far from here, it’s an hour drive from where we are now—what are some of the contrasts?
Gary 24:03
Yeah, you know, I was insecure to some level. My marriage was struggling. I didn’t know what to do. I was looking for purpose—another purpose in my life. I felt like I was kind of lost, felt like I lost my way.
Okay, I was self-employed, you know, but my business at that point—it was probably just over 29 years. I started my business when I was a graduate student at the University of Idaho. So, almost 30 years.
Kind of—30 years of anything is a long time.
Doug Holt
Yep.
Gary
And so I kind of lost my passion for that. So I was just kind of adrift—drifting, coasting at best. At best. Recently married and built a wonderful log home in Idaho—nice piece of property—and the marriage was on the rocks, you know.
So it was just like, man, what am I going to do? So that was, you know, coming into the movement.
So let’s say, versus today: I had—through the process—that marriage came to an end. It’s not a story that a lot of guys want to hear, but it became clear that that marriage shouldn’t have happened. There was a misalignment of basic values. In spite of the communication, otherwise, things just were not going to be even remotely close to the relationship that I needed.
Yep, you know. So I wanted connection. I wanted presence. I wanted a partner who’s gonna be present in relationship, and that wasn’t going to be. So I—through the coaching, through some help, through some support—that clarity that was within me was brought out and brought to the light.
You guys never said, “Get a divorce.” There was nothing like that. You just brought my own truth to the surface.
Doug Holt
Right.
Gary
Which I love about this process.
Ultimately went through, got divorced. I sold my business in 2024. I took the business to market, and we sold it in January of ’25.
Yeah, after 32 years. So I still have two years of an earn-out provision, so I’m still working, but my exit—at about 55 years old—is defined.
So, divorce finalized, settled, paid. I got that beautiful log home back in December. Moved into that home in January.
Right during the process—not wanting to, not even looking for another relationship or anything like that—a person that I know introduced me to another one of his acquaintances and said…
He said to me, “Gary,” he says, “I hear you talking about The Powerful Man and the coaching you’re going through. I’ve seen the changes in you.”
This is a small business consultant with the SBA in Idaho.
And he says, “I have another client. Her name is Heather. She is a life coach, and I’m hearing similar things from her that I’m hearing from you. I know you’re not on the market. I know you’re going through a divorce, but I think you guys need to meet and talk about coaching.”
I said, “That—that is interesting.” Like, I’m learning about coaching. I’m receiving coaching. I want to know how I can continue to be—how can I someday maybe help other guys?
So Heather and I met, and long story short, this is the relationship. We have fallen deeply, deeply in love with one another. She is my forever.
And I love that I am her forever. And neither one of us saw that coming. And we were both kind of resistant to it initially. You know, we were just saying, “Let’s talk coaching, let’s share,” but we developed a love for one another.
And the communication, the relationship that we have—the connection, the vulnerability, the trust, the acceptance—she sees all of me and accepts all of me for who I am.
She’s not trying to change me. I’m not trying to change her.
It is just a very safe, loving, deep relationship.
Doug Holt 28:14
Hey guys, I just want to share something with you. I’m sure we can both agree that in order to fix something, you need to know what’s broken.
And not only need to know what’s broken, but a step-by-step methodology on how you can fix it.
That’s the easiest way to do it, right? Otherwise, you’re gonna be toiling with things.
That’s why I created a free training—a training that not only shows you how you got to where you are, where your relationship is missing that love, respect, admiration, and even intimacy that it used to have—
To how you get it back. How do you retain that—where your wife’s looking at you the same way she used to look at you when she said, “I do.”
You know, I don’t know about you, but for me, when my wife looks at me like I’m her man, I feel like I can conquer the world.
And I want that for you.
Simply go over to thepowerfulman.com/scales. That’s thepowerfulman.com/scales, and I have a free video training for you.
You can just click play and see if this resonates for you.
Now, back to the podcast.
Gary 29:17
Had I not been doing the work I’ve been doing in TPM, she would have totally passed me by.
Number one, the guy—our mutual friend—wouldn’t have thought to introduce us.
Yep.
Number two, I’m 15–16 years older than her, which is the same age as her ex-husband.
She didn’t want an older guy, and so I told you the story of how she said, “Gary, I love the conversation, but as far as a relationship, you’re above my age range.”
And I said, “That’s fine. That’s not why I’m here. I’m just here for the conversation.”
And a couple weeks later, we got back together again. I said, “Thank you for letting me know that up front. You know, not that there was any expectation, but I appreciate you being honest right up front. You know, honesty in relationships is big.”
And I said, “Honestly, you’re too old for me too.”
Doug Holt 30:09
I love that.
Gary 30:11
Her jaw dropped. She said…
And then she caught on—I was joking.
So it really was a beautiful thing.
So, in an ill-fated marriage to finding the woman of my dreams—and me being the man of her dreams.
Yes, me being the man of her dreams.
She said, “Gary, I’ve always wanted a man who impressed and inspired me, and you do this in spades.”
And she said, “I absolutely love you.”
Doug Holt 30:51
Wow. Good for you, buddy.
Gary 30:54
Thank you for your part in this—just helping me become that great man that TPM tends to pull the greatness out in men.
Doug Holt
Yeah. He’s always been there, right?
Gary
Been there. It’s been beat down, hidden, you know, kind of thing. There’s stuff—mud on the mirror, as you say.
There’s been stuff holding it—holding him—back.
Yes. Just remove those obstacles and let him rise.
Doug Holt 31:06
Yes. I love that.
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt 31:08
And shining brightly, he is.
And guys, for those listening, if you haven’t heard Gary and Heather talk, go back and look at the episodes.
Gary 31:18
Episodes 924 and 925. I’ve actually got them downloaded on my phone, because Heather sends those to people. I send those to people.
Doug Holt
Awesome.
Gary
If you’re having communication problems, let these two—watch these two people communicate.
Doug Holt 31:31
Yes. What I mean, guys, if you want to know what’s possible…
And I remember you talking about kind of when you came to the realization of like, “Hey, I want something different. Something else is possible. And I want that.”
Guys, if you want to see what’s possible, and you want to see a woman look at a man with love and respect, just watch those episodes.
I was talking to some guys in there—so when I say “in there,” for you listening—we’re at the TPM Ranch, and the guys are in the main house for The Alpha Reset.
And one of the gentlemen said, “I’m going to download those episodes to listen to them on my way home.”
And I said, “No, no, no. Watch them. Because you want to see how Gary and Heather look at each other and how Heather looks at Gary, which is this admiration, respect, and love.”
The way it feels to be looked at as a king, right?
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
And every man craves that. We always talk about how women—women need emotional safety.
Well, men do too.
Gary
We do.
Doug Holt
Women need to feel seen, heard, and desired.
Guess who else does?
Gary
We do.
Doug Holt 32:53
We do.
And when—I know you hadn’t had that previously—
Gary
Never.
Doug Holt
And when you feel what it feels like, guys, to have your woman look at you with love, respect, and admiration as a man, that just fills you with—like—the things I’ve done in this world are worth it, right?
Gary
Yeah. It’s our fuel.
Doug Holt
It is.
Gary 32:53
When I see her looking to me—looking in my eyes with those eyes—I melt.
Doug Holt
Yeah.
Gary
I mean, I will fight for her. I will fight for that.
I will run through a brick wall for her.
And just to be loved and accepted in that way and admired…
I ask the guys in the movement—you know, even in The Brotherhood or even Inner Circle guys—I say, “Do you want that?”
The connection is missing. And I said—and I’ll ask them—I say, “Okay, what is it you’re looking for?”
There’s a pause. They’re not exactly sure.
They know something’s missing, but they can’t really get their hands around—or their head around—it.
And I said, “Might it be having your wife look at you with desire?”
“Yes, yes! I want to be desired by my wife. I want her to adore me. I want her to really desire me.”
I said, “Well, be that guy that she can desire. Be a desirable man.”
You know?
And so, in this—which TPM gives us much about—how to become the king, how to become a great man, how to work on self, take care of self first, not be needy, you know—
Come with that calm, grounded, masculine strength. That confidence.
It’s like, doesn’t matter what’s going on out here. I know who I am. And I love myself.
I am good with myself.
Yes.
I’m not ashamed of who I am, you know.
And a woman can sense that.
Doug Holt 34:37
Oh, a mile away, right?
Yeah. It is the most common thing I hear, Gary—from men, married or not—especially coming out of The Alpha Reset.
It’s usually when they start to notice it.
And they’ll be like, “Doug…”
There’s one guy in particular—I’ve told this story before—but after his Alpha Reset, he went to a baseball game with his buddies.
Average-looking guy, right? Just a normal run-of-the-mill guy.
And his friends were like, “What the f*** is happening?”
He said, when they were at the game, women would walk across—sitting in different sections—just to go, “What’s your name?”
Like, “Do I know you? Are you famous or something?”
Because they radiate this energy about them that women can’t help but be attracted to—especially feminine women.
Gary 35:21
Exactly. And I’m seeing that. I don’t view myself as the greatest-looking guy by any means, but I have seen, since TPM, how my confidence is.
I walk through an airport, and I’d be kind of averting eyes and stuff like that…
But I can see men and women for who they are, and just—it’s got nothing to do with me. I see them now, you know?
And I can hold eye contact. And I’ll get some masculine guy come up, and he looks me in the eye, and all of a sudden, I see him nod his head in respect.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
I’m like, wow. It’s right.
We’re just going by each other—not even saying a word.
It’s unspoken. It’s—it’s sensed.
Doug Holt 36:00
Yes, yes. Alpha knows alpha.
And it’s not alpha the way that our society has talked about.
The way I define alpha, right?
It’s—you’ve gotten to know your inner self, and you have that inner strength.
It’s not the alpha, “I’m going to go beat up everybody at the airport” type thing.
Gary 36:13
The guys that are stronger than you—desert dominance over you.
Yeah, no. Not at all.
Doug Holt 36:19
Not at all. And that’s what people—women—can detect. And from forever, my wife will tell you that the women that she coaches, this is all they want. And the thing I think about—I think about the men you were talking about that, “Yes, I just want my woman to desire me again”—is, guys, think back when you got married, right? And what was the look your wife had when she was looking at you, when you were saying your vows or what have you? That’s there for you. It’s just—we get to go back.
Because men don’t do this as much, in my experience. But women, when they get married, they look at the potentiality of the man—the value of the man they see within him.
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
They can see who he can become.
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
And they get disappointed when we fall short. And I’m a guy, right, Gary? So I look at this like a stock, right? I don’t go buy stock that I think is going to go down—unless you’re shorting.
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
There is that. But the general term, I want something to go up. I want it to go up exponentially. And if I have high hopes for it and it goes down, that saddens me.
Gary
Depressing.
Doug Holt
Right? Yeah. Same thing with a relationship. So to see, you know, the contrast of Heather looking at you in the eyes is like she got a deal, right? She got the best stock in the world.
Gary
Rising stock.
Doug Holt
Steadily rising. Steadily.
Gary
That’s right.
Doug Holt
Because you’re continuously doing the work. You know, continuously doing the work. Whereas other men were getting frustrated. I was in this boat too—I was doing work outside, but in the relationship I was transactional.
“When Aaron—my wife—when she starts treating me better, or loving me better, respecting me more like she used to, then I’ll be a better husband. Then I’ll do the other things.”
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
Transactional.
Gary
Yep.
Doug Holt
100% transactional. Versus just, “Oh, this is what Doug does.”
Gary 38:12
My marriages—marriage and relationships historically—have been transactional. You know, “You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” kind of thing. And it’s just the way I was. I didn’t—don’t know why, you know. I just was. And I’m not that way anymore.
Heather’s needs are my needs. I say, “I love this woman. I know I want her. I’m providing as much space—holding as much space—to allow her to…” I told Heather, I said, “I want you to thrive. I don’t want to be the guy that holds you back, wants you to dim your light, you know, ‘Oh, you need to be this modest, this, that, whatever,’ holds you back. Don’t get too noticeable. I want you to thrive. You be the woman that’s inside you. Let her come forth, and I will support it.”
Doug Holt 38:59
Yes. And that’s a beautiful thing that you guys have. And you know, unfortunately, a lot of guys have so much resentment towards their wives because they’re not getting their needs met—they’re emotionally, sexually, or something along those lines—that they want to punish. Or their wife’s cheated or had an affair.
And obviously that’s a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed. But in my view, if a man decides to stay in the relationship, that’s a choice he’s making. He has to find a way to let that go, or at least not punish her.
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
Right? It can’t be punishment—or if you’re deciding to stick around.
Gary 39:32
If trust—emotional trust or any kind of other trust in the relationship—has been broken, you know, a man may—you know, a person may—want to hold another person back or prevent them from…
“Oh, they may leave me if they grow too much.”
Doug Holt
Right.
Gary
You know, “I may not be good enough,” or whatever. Or—all sorts of stories can happen. But I think in my experience, when I love someone, I want to take care of them. I want to provide for them. I want to enable them—empower them—to become everything they can be.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
That’s just in my nature, you know? And I want to do that for them. Not everybody—not every person—has that, but I agree. So for me, that is—that’s one of the ways I can love somebody well.
Doug Holt 40:17
Yeah. It’s interesting—comes up for me—and that is thinking of a guy recently who came into the program and his wife filed for divorce.
We know 70% of divorces are filed by the woman. 90% if she’s got a college degree or higher.
Gary
Those are huge stats.
Doug Holt
Yeah. And he went through the program, and she rescinded the divorce—which is great. It happens a lot. But he was like, “I don’t know.”
Because he had risen so much—
Gary
Huh.
Doug Holt
—that he started to go, “Are you going to keep up with me?”
Gary
Yeah, right.
Doug Holt
You know? So he’s not this—he’s grown. He’s realized that who he was attracted that level of relationship. And that the character that—really—he’s grown is like, “I don’t want what we had. I may consider something new with you, but that old relationship has to die.”
Gary
Yep.
Doug Holt
That’s exactly what it was. And she was shocked.
Gary
What?!
Doug Holt
You know, and he’s, “Come with me on this ride. Let’s go.” And they did. She did.
Gary
Really?
Doug Holt
Good luck. She’s on her way. She’s stepping into that.
Gary
Awesome.
Doug Holt
But it’s that realization, right? Of going from immediate, “Oh no, my wife’s going to leave me,” and then when that happens, right?
Most men feel like they’re not good enough.
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
“What’s wrong with me?” is the thing I hear from a lot of guys when I talk to them. “What did I do wrong?”
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
Etc. “How do I fix this?”
From going from that to all of a sudden being a stock that’s rising again, she’s now—she’s now buying. She wants to double down on her investment.
Gary
She sees—
Doug Holt
She’s like, “Wait, this train’s moving away from me now.”
Gary 41:47
And if we are wise as men, if we have an option to—if we’re in a situation like this—to choose, you know, it’s like, who do I want to hitch my wagon to?
Yeah, I want alignment of values. I want common purpose. I want growth in a similar direction.
That’s going to eliminate a lot of options.
Doug Holt
Right.
Gary
You know, I mean, I was talking to somebody today, and, you know, they’re coming out of a relationship, and it was like—clear that that wasn’t going to be a good fit in the long term, you know?
But to have the wisdom to go beyond, “Okay, this is how she makes me feel, and therefore I want to marry her.”
You know how many of us have done that?
Doug Holt
Completely.
Gary
As, you know, 20-year-olds.
Doug Holt
Yep.
Gary
Completely. Our whole society is set up for failure in that regard.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
“Let’s go with our feelings. Let’s get married.”
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
It’s those—it’s the compatibility, and the values, and the character, and all these things…
I’ll get off—that’s a whole topic for another conversation.
Doug Holt 42:56
I mean, if you just look at anybody that’s trying to better themselves in general—they’re attractive. Right? People want to be around that energy.
Gary
Yes.
Doug Holt
The only people that don’t are the people that—being around that person reminds them of what they’re not doing. And those are people you necessarily don’t need to be around anyway.
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
Because they’re stagnant.
Gary
Yeah.
Doug Holt
And I’m sure a lot of the guys listening to this right now can picture themselves being in one of two boats. One, you’re either the person that’s attracting people to you, or, if you’re not attracting the people playing at a higher level to you—like you’re saying, like nod from the airport—people in your environment that are playing at a high level, are they calling you? Are they texting you? Are they messaging you?
Is that happening to you?
If it’s not, then you’re repelling people. That’s really what’s happening.
So it’s time, you know, to have that reality check. Don’t get mad at yourself. Don’t feel guilty or shameful. Just go, “Okay, I get to step my game up a notch.”
Gary
That’s a good challenge. Absolutely.
Doug Holt
Absolutely love it. And that’s how you can get what you have with Heather.
I mean, you’re—you’re constantly up-leveling, and so is she. She’s on the journey, you know?
You guys don’t always have to be on the same path. You don’t always have to be…
You could be a little ahead, she could be… whatever it may be. Your paths could be completely different, and you’re both on it together.
Gary 44:15
You know, it’s like, as we go forward, she’s got her job and her growth path and everything. And I’ve got mine—kind of things running in parallel—but we build these bridges across the way, you know, like if you put a ladder up against a wall, you got the two uprights and then these horizontal steps that are connections, right? You know, that hold it together.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
You know? And so we’re very intentional about making sure that if you’re both growing and you’re not intentional about making those connections, you could drift apart.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
Very easily. Both growing. Both. And it’s just like, if you’re not paying attention and just letting it run its course, the natural course is things will just drift apart. Things don’t stay in parallel by nature. They tend to go in different directions.
Doug Holt 44:58
Think about your business, right? I mean, do you have quarterly meetings?
Gary 45:01
Yeah, of course you do.
Doug Holt 45:03
How many people have quarterly meetings with their wife? Right? I was just talking to one of the coaches here that led The Alpha Reset, and he’s got a plan for—I think it’s a week. He’ll be on vacation with his partner, and that’s what they’re gonna do. They’re gonna do a check-in.
Gary
Nice.
Doug Holt
And, you know, I was talking to him, I go, that’s smart. Because check in before the problems happen—or at least know what the problems are when they’re smaller so that way you can take care of them, versus two years from now—
Gary
Absolutely.
Doug Holt
“Oh, shit.”
Gary 45:32
Two years from now, with a little bit of different direction, you know, there’s a big gap down the road, dude. Much. You know? So rather these more frequent check-ins.
Heather and I—we did New Year’s—went to New York to visit family for Christmas, and then we went down to Key West for New Year’s. And I, before the trip, I said, “How do you feel about taking some time while we’re in Key West to just do some visioning for us in ’25?”
Oh man, that was like the sexiest thing I could have said—all sorts of expletives around that, you know.
We had a couple hours on the beach there, and she had her things she wanted to do, and I had mine. So let’s just pick a few that we want to do together—experiences, areas of growth, and areas of contribution. Those were kind of the three buckets we put them all into and used that for my TPM coaching with Arthur.
And she goes, “Honestly, contribution feels a bit much for me. I need to heal up and stuff.”
And out of that conversation, we found some experiences that we wanted to do together, where she wanted to grow—which included coaching with your wife, your beautiful wife, Erin.
Doug Holt
So those two are about that for a little bit?
Gary
Those two are in a coaching relationship now, which Heather is enjoying immensely.
Doug Holt
Oh, good to hear.
Gary
And you know, she goes, “The contribution’s just… it’s just, I don’t have it. I need to heal.” And we talked about having a theme for the year, and as a result of that conversation, her theme for the year is “Restoration.”
She is going to restore her heart. She’s going to restore some things that she’s been kind of just unable to deal with because she’s been holding things together.
I am now providing—just intentionally providing—space and frame for her to let that come up in a safe place for her to process. And she loves me. I know she does.
She texted me last night. Texted me a picture. She’s in the tub—it was just a headshot—and she smiled with candlelight, and she said, “This woman, capital L, LOVES you.”
Doug Holt 47:35
How does that not make you melt?
Gary 47:36
Oh man. I was just like, “Oh!” Guys, if you know, just as an encouragement, you know—not everybody’s going to have the same situation I am—but everybody needs a Heather in their life.
Meaning: a woman who loves and desires and adores you and respects you and admires you.
Be that guy.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
You can be that guy. You know, she’ll choose whether she wants that guy or not, but you grow, you work on yourself, you be that guy, and it will attract such wonderful things.
Doug Holt 48:07
And here’s the thing I’m gonna add on to that—because by being that guy, you lose nothing.
Gary
You lose nothing.
Doug Holt
Nothing.
Gary
Nothing.
Doug Holt
And if your marriage doesn’t work out—if I can, what you just said, yours didn’t—you come out the other side attracting such a higher vibration, if you will, frequency, or, you know, a person playing at a different game—the game that you want to play.
And that’s—there is no—there’s no risk.
Gary 48:36
There’s nothing that can go wrong with that.
Doug Holt
No.
Gary
And, okay, so let’s just say I don’t attract a partner immediately. I’m this guy. I’ve stepped into this guy. My immediate world is better off because I am this guy.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
My other relationships, my other things in my environment and the world around me are better off because I am—I’m contributing my full authentic self and the benefits that brings to the world. And because that’s my design.
Doug Holt 49:05
We work with businessmen, right? We just opened up a pilot program for non-businessmen coming through, which you know. And as you know, I work mostly with one-on-one guys, right? That’s a steep six-figure commitment, right? To do that.
And so there’s one gentleman I work with, and he’s like, “The ROI on this is incredible.” And I was like—so I was like, I know. Like you’re talking about—I thought he was talking about his relationship.
He’s like, “Oh no. You kidding me? I show up as such a better man. My business has grown so much as a byproduct of the stuff I came in for.”
He’s like, “You should really keep—you know, he’s a business guy, so we’re talking business now—you should keep statistics on people’s, you know, get the revenue numbers when they start and when they, you know, come in for a year and see how their business…”
Like, secondary ROI.
Well, you’re exiting out your company, yeah? That was stagnant and stale. I’m not saying it was directly TPM, but it still helped.
Gary
It’s the work.
Doug Holt
It’s the work that you’re doing to better yourself.
When I work to better myself—whatever area I pick—the other areas lift. Right?
So me, I’m trying to work on my fitness now, as you know. I talk about it a lot.
Gary
Good for you, man. I’m encouraging you.
Doug Holt
I appreciate it, buddy. And I’m doing it. And so when that happens, my self rises—the category. My relationships rise. All the categories start coming up, and everything starts working better.
And I think a lot of men forget that knock-down effect of showing up as the best version of yourself.
And whether your wife wants to come along for the journey or not, you cannot control that.
But you can give yourself a shot.
Gary 50:41
That’s right. You give yourself the best odds of success in that marriage, relationship—and if she chooses otherwise, you know, I’m sad for you. I get it.
But in the scheme of things—there is life after.
There is life after divorce. I can prove that based on my experience. And it can be so much, so much more rewarding, so much more enriching—not only for me, but for the world around me.
Because if I am no longer—if I am free from a non-winnable struggle, and my energy is then directed elsewhere—I mean, in good and healthy ways, this is where my world benefits, right?
So anyways, it’s a wonderful thing. Everything is related. All these territories—the five territories we discuss—they’re all related, because it’s us. It’s some aspect of us.
So, you know, you start getting momentum in one area—it pulls others up.
Doug Holt 51:44
Yeah, 100% does. And I’m going to double down on this because I want to call some of these guys listening to this forward about choosing to better themselves—whether doing a TPM course or they go do another course, whatever—but doing something to move forward rather than just trying to… guys are gonna hate hearing this, but you’re playing a victim card when you’re being needy, trying to get your wife’s attention versus focusing on being the best version of you, right? You’re really—what you’re really doing is saying, “I’m the victim. These things external of me have control over me,” and it’s not sexy to your wife, it’s not sexy to anybody.
And you need to start focusing on, instead of “What do I need to do to get her to do something?”—because that’s transactional—to “What do I get to do to be the best version of myself?”
Gary 52:32
Yes, that’s amazing. You know, I know we got—I think in your listening pool—we got a lot of men who are not in the TPM community. They’re not. So it’s a much broader audience, right?
And, you know, I would just say to those guys, if you’re listening to podcasts, that’s great, you know, but the application of the information is really where it’s at, right?
And you can implement some portion of it probably on your own. You know, I’ve done that—read books and learned some things and applied some things—but to get the true, full effect of what you’re hearing, the content, all these podcasts, getting into the community and being part of a group of guys and calling each other forward and joining, taking that plunge—you know, unbidden sales pitch here, right?
But take that plunge. And whether it’s TPM or whether it’s some other organization, the community support, the peer accountability—what was really, for me, what drove this home, you know, guys weren’t gonna let me gloss over stuff and just move forward without actually showing that I’ve got it.
You know, they’re like, “Hey, you’re dropping the ball here, Gary. You know you’re still holding back. You’re not being honest with your wife about what you really want to hear or what she really needs to hear, right? What your desires are.”
You know—and that’s even just last year. So I’ve been in the movement for two years. At the time, that’s when it really anchored home for me about this honesty in relationships, meaning I need to be honest with myself with what I want and be okay with that, and then share it and let that land as it will.
And that is what ultimately brought the clarity that was necessary to determine that my marriage was not going to succeed.
She—”Here’s what I need.” And she essentially said, “No, I’m not going to.”
It’s like, well, you said you would before we got married, and now you’re not going to. I’m like, oh, that’s the goalpost. There’s a bait and switch there, right?
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
So then I had a very difficult decision to make, which was to end the marriage. And all the guilt and shame and stigma and all that stuff that I had to face and press through that in spite of that—because I knew that I was not… nobody was happy.
So I took the courage to do that. Grieved the process—the whole process—and freedom on the other side. And lo and behold, you know, I found Heather. You know, or Heather found me. We found each other.
There was a little meme that came out. One of the guys here at the reset—lot of anger and everything like that—his nickname was “The Hurricane.” You know, he finally found some peace and some calm and some love. The storm is still there, so he’s got that energy. So he got the nickname The Hurricane.
And this meme had popped up. It said, “Not all storms come to disrupt your life. Some come to clear your path.”
Doug Holt
I love that.
Gary
He loved it too, you know. So sometimes we need to clear the path so that we can have that fertile ground on the other side.
Doug Holt 55:55
Yeah. I think most men are afraid to have that conversation, Gary. I mean, I’ve had the same conversation. Not the same, but it’s similar—”Hey, my needs aren’t being met. Here are my needs.”
Now, I was on a different side of it where my wife was like, “Okay,” and then we started working towards her being able to meet those needs, yeah?
And of course, you know what she said—”Great, I happen to have some needs too.”
Gary 56:22
So good of you to lead this conversation.
Doug Holt 56:26
And she pulled out a book—
Gary
Exactly.
Doug Holt
But that’s fair, right?
Gary
Yes.
Doug Holt
If her needs aren’t being met—I told this woman, “I love you. I want to meet her needs.” I do care about her. And it’s not a transactional relationship. And she felt the same way. Unfortunately, in your situation, you were with somebody that just wasn’t willing to do that for you.
Gary 56:48
I had that conversation several times—guided by coach Franco—and she twisted, you know, kind of turned her back on me.
And I finally sat down on the couch one time and said, “Listen,” I said, “You know I love you.”
And I said, “We’ve had this conversation several times, and I’ve asked you, ‘How can I be a better husband?’”
And you give me some suggestions and—to my… and I think you would acknowledge that I’ve taken those that I thought had some truth in them, and I worked on those.”
And she kind of nodded her head yes.
And we’re sitting side by side on the couch. I said, “Not once have you asked me, ‘How can I be a better wife?’ or ‘How can I meet your needs?’ You’ve never asked me that once. And that makes me feel like I don’t matter to you.”
That was tough for me to say that. I mean, this is pretty bold. I was in my energy, was loving, you know, I’m calm.
And she got her arms crossed, her jaw got tight, lips pursed.
“Okay, Gary, let’s run this out. Gary, how can I be a better wife to you?”
Just the anger.
And I said—I just calmly commented—I said, “You’ve got me in the friend zone, and that doesn’t work for me.”
And then her story came up—”Well, that makes me feel like I’m a failure as a wife, and it makes me feel this… me, me, me, me, me,” and I let her beat herself up because this was her story coming out.
And I just sat there. I didn’t try and mollify that or try and say, “You’re not a bad wife.” I just let her hear the weight of her own words. I just kind of sat there, and I just kind of agreed with her a little bit, you know, just lovingly.
I said—and she… that was the end of that conversation. She went away, you know, and went to bed. But man, talk about an impactful, honest, “These are my needs.”
Scary. I don’t know how she’s gonna react. She could blow up, whatever.
But it takes courage to be honest.
Doug Holt 58:44
100%—because you don’t know, especially if you have your validation of who you are as a man wrapped up into that other person’s opinion of you.
Which most men do.
Gary
Right.
Doug Holt
Most men do.
Gary 58:59
Like we talked earlier on with previous podcasts, guys still in the Brotherhood, or even the Inner Circle have, and even some of the coaches have a hard time being honest with their wife about what they really need. Yep. But man, when they do, things can shift. Yes, things can shift. I finally talked to her. I find another, a man—you know him well, a former Brother’s Brother—and on my way over here, I called him. I had a six-hour drive, and I was just encouraging, “Man, just let her know what you need.” You know, we’ve had this discussion for a while. It’s been coming. Lo and behold, he had that need and, man—or he had that discussion and post—guess what she initiated last night?
Doug Holt 59:47
Well, a lot of times, man, I’ll hear this a lot, that the woman is waiting for a man to lead. Yes, right? We hear that time and time again. You’ve experienced that with Heather right now—you’re leading, and she loves it.
Is Heather a weak and meek woman? No, right?
Gary
Not at all.
Doug Holt
No, but she allows you to lead because she trusts your leadership, right?
Gary
Yep.
Doug Holt
And so a lot of the guys are scared to have this conversation with their wives, and their wives want to have a conversation too. And I mean, I will tell you—I say this all the time, but I know we have new listeners—if I had a nickel for every time I heard a guy tell me that his wife doesn’t want to have… is like uninterested in sex—”She’s not a sexual person, Doug”—so tell me really, like, she just doesn’t want to have sex with you. Like, that’s the problem, buddy.
Or she wants to. My wife talks to women all the time, and they just want their man to initiate it first, because of all the—that’s a dominant thing, the stigma for women. “What will they think of me if I initiate?” and all the other stuff that can come along with that. So she doesn’t initiate. You don’t initiate, right? And now you have a dry bedroom and no one’s talking about it.
Yeah? You know? Because—both people are hurting. Both people are hurting. Sex is one of those taboo topics, yet we’re all here because of it.
Gary
Exactly.
Doug Holt
Right?
Gary
Exactly.
Doug Holt
No one’s here because their parents didn’t have sex.
Gary
Exactly.
Doug Holt
So I would encourage the men to have those conversations. And if you don’t know, get a coach to get the tools. Here’s how you bring it up now.
Gary 1:01:18
Yeah, absolutely. There’s so much room for growth, for guys to just step up into the—you know, integrity. Deliver what you promise. Be a man of your word. Be a trustworthy guy. Be safe—not just in financial security, be safe in physical surrounding—but be emotionally safe.
And there’s so much that goes into emotional safety for a woman. A lot of the women don’t feel safe because the guys haven’t been consistent. They’ll make steps—we’re gonna take imperfect action, right? We’re gonna be imperfect—but the more consistent we can be, the more trustworthy that she sees us as, and the more she’s likely to open up and feel safe.
And as she starts vent—kind of opening up and sharing feelings and maybe emotion-charged, whatever—to not react in a negative way and just to hold space for that and see that as a gift. She is sharing her feelings with you. That’s trust.
Even if it comes across as nagging or complaining or whatever, she’s sharing her feelings with you. Embrace that as a good thing, even if it kind of is prickly, right?
And realize that she wants connection with you.
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
She wants connection with you. So what can we do to foster those moments of connection? Build connection, connection, and keep doing that. And keep doing that. And that’s when the physical intimacy follows.
Doug Holt 1:02:50
It’s 100%. And you’ve got to take that leadership to make that happen.
There’s a gentleman that called to talk to one of our advisors, and I saw the conversation. I’m trying to think of how not to give it away. I don’t want to call this guy out directly.
But essentially, what it came down to is—he was so scared of his wife, right? “What’s my wife going to say if I join a program or if I spend this money?” Because it’s an investment. It is a fine—I’m not, guys listening now—we do charge money for coaching, right? It is a financial investment and a time investment.
Gary
It’s worth it.
Doug Holt
I think it is too. I think we’re—you know, the wife might not think it’s worth it until she sees the benefit of it.
Gary
Exactly.
Doug Holt
Well—and so what this guy was essentially saying was, “Yes, divorce is on the table. My wife’s considering it.”
And then when it came down to it, and the enrollment person said, “Okay, here’s the cost of the program. Here’s where it is.”
The guy said, “I’ve seen the results. I’ve seen the people on there. You’re the one I work—guys I want to work with. But we’re remodeling part of our house right now, and so I’m gonna—my wife will want me to spend the money on that instead.”
I’m thinking, you know what, man? You’re gonna remodel part of your house and have a wife that’s gonna divorce you and is gonna take the house or you’re selling it, right?
Gary
Yep.
Doug Holt
You’re never gonna enjoy that remodel, right? Or you could take some leadership and do something now. If you don’t think our program is the right one—cool. Fair enough. And that’s exactly what the person that was enrolling him said.
He said, “Look,” he’s like, “I’ll be honest with you. Go do something else.”
And the guy’s like, “No, no, this is the program I want to do. I’ve seen the results from the men that have come through it.”
And to this person’s credit—Ryan was the guy talking to him—he said, “I just won’t take that for an answer. You just have to go do something. If you tell me you don’t care about your marriage, you don’t want to do anything—fine. But if you want to change it, you have to take some action, because this remodel thing is BS.”
And I love the fact he called him forward.
Gary
Good for him. Absolutely.
Doug Holt
But a lot of men are so scared of these conversations because they’re scared of what their wife is going to say or do—which has got them in the trouble in the first place.
Now she’s got to make all the decisions, which is a masculine nature thing. It’s not that she’s not capable of it, but, man, now he’s just going to be following orders.
Gary 1:05:08
Our fear of our wife’s reaction is a huge driver for so many men. Yep, we’re just emotionally afraid of our wives. It’s kind of like Mom. It is kind of like Mom. “Lord, I don’t want to upset Mom,” right? You know, but when a man comes into the program and stands on his own two feet emotionally, Mom’s reaction doesn’t have nearly the effect. Yes, doesn’t have nearly the effect. In fact, Mom’s reaction will start responding to our calmness, yes, and Mom will stop—Mom, wife—will stop reacting in such a stormy way when we are calm and we are grounded and she realizes that she isn’t easily gonna knock us over. She wants us to be strong.
Doug Holt 1:05:55
100%. There’s Coltyn, who does our videography and production, and I drove across—heck of a guy that he is.
Gary
He is a heck of a guy.
Doug Holt
Not that he’s in the room or anything.
Gary
No, no, no. He is. He’s an amazing man, amazing in so many different ways.
Doug Holt
So we went to someone’s house. We were interviewing him and his wife, and the guy said, “I saw this thing, and I said I’m going to invest in this program.” His wife said, “Well, how much does it cost?” “It costs X.” “Well, no, you’re not spending that money.”
So what she was—she’s telling the story to Coltyn and I—he was on the stairs, turns to her and goes, “I’m doing the program.” And she goes, “That was so effing hot,” because he took charge.
Gary 1:06:36
Yeah, there’s my man. He is in charge, and he’s on a mission. And I’m proud of that guy. That’s exactly what it is. I admire that guy right now.
Doug Holt 1:06:44
Or it’s the guys, “No, I don’t want to spend… Hey babe, is it okay if I do this?”
Gary 1:06:47
Wishy-washy is not so respectable. It’s not. Women don’t want it.
Doug Holt
No. No.
Gary
You think about like when Heather says, “I want a man who impresses and inspires me,” that is—you know, a guy’s like, “I’m doing this. I’m going for it. I’m shooting my shot.”
Doug Holt
Exactly.
Gary
“And because this is for we.”
Doug Holt
Yes.
Gary
“The we.” Yes. It’s for me. I’m doing this for me. And by being a better me, there can be a better we.
Doug Holt 1:07:15
And sometimes you have to—well, not sometimes—but you have to lead. You have to lead from the front, and you have to take ownership. And when I’m like that with my wife—who’s also a very strong woman, you know she is, powerful lady—I allow, but I give her permission to be feminine and to go into her femininity, and that’s her natural state.
And so then she’s able to slip in and actually do—and then when I do what I say. So I’m investing in a program right now with our family’s money, and I’m telling her, “No, I’m doing this, and this is why.” And I do it from a place of love and genuine—she’s like, “That sounds great. I trust you.” Right? Because I’ll follow through. I’ll complete the program.
Now, is this program I’m personally investing in going to be the best? I don’t know. You know, I just don’t know. What I do know is I will give it my best. My wife knows that too.
Gary 1:08:04
There you go. There you go. And it’s like, some guys will just try and analyze every option and get paralyzed—paralysis through analysis kind of a thing. It’s like, take the imperfect action, as you always say. Do something. You know, and there’s no reason you can’t try two or three different things until you find something that works, you know.
But to not try is the worst thing you can do.
Doug Holt
100%.
Gary
Yeah, you’re gonna get stuck with more of the same. And it won’t be the same. It will erode. What you have is going to erode unless you successfully move it forward.
In the moment of insight, take massive action.
Doug Holt 1:08:41
I love it, Gary. I know we could talk for another eight hours without any problem. Another time. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks for all that you do to show other men what it means to be a powerful man—a true powerful man—thanks, and all your endeavors. So thank you.
Doug Holt (continued)
Gentlemen, as Gary said: In the moment of insight, take massive action.
And that means doing something now. Stop making excuses. Stop waiting for permission—permission from me, permission from Gary, permission from your wife, permission from work, whatever it is.
Stop waiting. Stop wasting your time. You deserve more than average, and that’s true. You deserve greatness, just like these men next to us in the house that went through, over these three days, amazing transformation.
Every one of them came up to me and said, “I wish I would have done this sooner.” I hear that so many times. But I want that for you.
Now, joining The Activation Method for Relationships or the Activation Method for Self—our flagship programs to start off with—you joining doesn’t change my life at all. I don’t eat differently, I don’t sleep differently. It doesn’t.
But it could change yours. And that’s what I want for you, guys. I want you guys to have the opportunity.
If that’s something you’re interested in, just go over to thepowerfulman.com website. There’s an application process to see if you qualify. You’ll get on a call with an advisor, right? They just talk to you about your situation, give you insights, and see if it’s a good fit.
If it’s not a good fit, no problem. No harm, no foul. But at least you’re taking action and doing something. Do something today to move yourself towards your best life.
We’ll see you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
