Episode #726
Are your expectations of intimacy influenced by idealized portrayals in pornography?
Are you turning to porn as an escape from addressing relationship issues?
In this intriguing episode, Tim and Doug delve into the complexities of modern relationships and the impact of the adult entertainment industry on intimacy. This candid discussion explores how these dynamics can hinder the pursuit of meaningful connections within marriages.
In this episode, you’ll learn about the prevalent role of pornography in contemporary society and its potential consequences for relationships.
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TRANSCRIPTION
Tim Matthews 00:37
Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of the Powerful Man Show. Mr. Dougie Fresh. Great to be here with you.
Doug Holt 00:44
You too, as well.
Tim Matthews 00:46
Yeah, I’m loving this. I’m loving this set. So much better doing it in person.
Doug Holt 00:51
I like it.
Tim Matthews 00:52
Yeah, so much better. So, yeah, I saw a post in a Facebook group a couple of days ago.
Doug Holt 00:59
Okay.
Tim Matthews 01:00
It’s a men’s Facebook group. And it went something like, only Fans did 6.3 billion in revenue last year. Thoughts? Now, as you can imagine, it’s a Facebook group full of guys. So the comments on the thread went all over the place. Some funny, some intriguing, whatever it may be and what it made me think of. Because, Candidly, I don’t really know a great deal about only fans. I prefer a completely different site.
Doug Holt 01:29
It’s going to ask, how much of that 6 billion is yours? You’ve contributed.
Tim Matthews 01:35
All of it. Yeah, I’ve got a better site I like to use. But no, in all seriousness, I don’t really know what Only Fans is. I’ve heard the guys joke about it. I assumed it was a porn site. And what I took from that particular post was the idea of how this particular site has come about in the past couple of years, and it’s taken off real quick. And it’s a prevalence of porn. Right? It’s a prevalence and sexualization really of society. And you’re laughing.
Doug Holt 02:08
I’m laughing because you hit that couch, like 30 times. Be nervous – [Crosstalk]
Tim Matthews 02:19
Yes. On all seriousness, it got me thinking about porn. Yeah. Got me thinking about how often will you — I mean, look, I’d love to meet the guy that either hasn’t used it or doesn’t use it whatsoever.
Doug Holt 02:33
PORN. Not only fans.
Tim Matthews 02:35
Yeah, porn. I know there’s a lot of guys in the movement who are on the Master of Your Domain challenge, which is no porn and frankly, no masturbation. And they’ve said that’s transformed their relationship, right? Because instead of them just having a desire and just letting it out, instead they have held it in and channeled that desire into their relationship. And as a result, it’s led to them pursuing their wife a lot more, and it’s led to them bringing a more intense sexual energy into the bedroom as well. Now, Candidly, I’ve tried the challenge. I didn’t make it as far as some of these guys are at, like, day 100.
Doug Holt 02:36
Did you how far did you make it? I’ve never done the challenge, so I don’t know.
Tim Matthews 02:39
Yeah, I got into the 20s.
Doug Holt 03:30
Okay.
Tim Matthews 03:31
Yeah, I got into the 20s.
Doug Holt 03:33
21 days.
Tim Matthews 03:34
Yeah, 21 days. It was obviously tough.
Doug Holt 03:37
That’s three weeks.
Tim Matthews 03:39
Yeah, it’s challenging. And obviously this isn’t about not ejaculating because you can still have sex at the same that was a tough challenge. It really was. But, yeah, a lot of the guys have said how cutting those two things out of the life have made a massive difference to them. So I’m just curious. Let’s open up the conversation. Hey, I’m curious to hear what you think about this, because I know you have different opinions to this as well.
Doug Holt 04:02
I always have an opinion. I’m still watching you hit the couch. So a funny aside is, because of what we do, right, at the Powerful Man, what you and I do, it’s so hard to explain to people, like, we’re coaches, we’re mentors, we come in as business consultants. Sometimes it’s really hard to sum that up when somebody at a barbecue asks you, hey, what do you do for a living? That kind of thing.
So my response every time, and guys, you can use this. It’s hilarious. Usually is. People say, so what do you do? I say, have you ever heard of OnlyFans? And people just stare at me. I get all kinds of reactions. Laughs, jokes, blank stares. What’s that? Or people are like, oh, is he serious? So that is my go to…
Tim Matthews 04:44
That’s where I first started, only fans. You saying that joke.
Doug Holt 04:46
Yeah, I say it all the time.
Tim Matthews 04:48
You say it for a long time.
Doug Holt 04:50
Yeah, because it’s hard to describe, and it’s more fun than being like, I’m an accountant. It just opens up a conversation. So one is, I think we should go back to that Master Domain challenge sometime and do another podcast episode about that, maybe bring in some of the guys. That would be really interesting because I would be curious about it. I’ve never done that. I’ve done a version of that, but not for this whole challenge portion of it. Just to increase desire.
Yeah. I think OnlyFans, if I’m not mistaken, started off as a website for artists like music artists and other artists to bring their fan base in and sell them other songs, tracks live recordings and make money on them. And of course, as it all does, it turns to porn. But they have people that have foot fetishes, so people just video their feet and that’s it. Or picture people are into that stuff.
And what that tells me, one is I don’t have a problem with any of it. I just want to be abundantly clear. I think consenting adults should be allowed to do what consenting adults want to do. Two is, I believe it came out around the time of the pandemic, and I think for me what only fans represents more than just porn. Because there’s so much free porn out there. Anybody with an internet can figure that out. Which remind me, I want to say it’s, one in three Google searches is around porn. Something crazy like that. Yeah, it’s huge. It might be one in two.
Tim Matthews 06:19
I’m going to say, but it’s higher.
Doug Holt 06:21
Yeah, when you think about the searches. But anyway, that takes me back to my old marketing agency days. What it really tells me is how much the lack of communication and relationships, right? And I’ll use us men as an example. Men have this hormonal complex that goes on a lot where when they marry their wife and her wife becomes the mother of their children, they stop telling them the woman, what they want, what their fantasies are, what their desires are.
In fact, I remember a time we were talking to one of our head coaches and I was telling him a conversation that my wife and I were having about sex. And he was like, you’re talking about that with her? He was blown away. I was like, yeah. I was telling her, this is what I want and this is what I want to do. And he was blown away. And this guy’s a very evolved man which also tells me about the average communication that goes on about the bedroom. We all want to have sex. We all like sex. If you’ve got kids, you’ve had sex. So why is it so taboo?
And when you look at For America, we’re raised almost a puritanical culture, right, that’s there that’s kind of this idea that you can’t talk about sex. Sex is dirty, whatever it may be. And so when men in particular have these fantasies, either one, they’re in a sexless marriage, two, they’re having just very basic missionary sex with their wife that probably, I’m just going to say it, it’s not good for her and he’s not really enjoying it that much.
So it’s kind of like masturbating with a person and they’re not really communicating their desires. She’s not telling him what she wants. He’s not telling her what he wants. So they go to a site like OnlyFans and pay some money to watch other people do it and live out that fantasy, whatever that fantasy may be.
Tim Matthews 08:14
Yeah, I’d agree with that, for sure. The lack of communication in the bedroom.
Doug Holt 08:19
Oh, yeah.
Tim Matthews 08:20
Big issue.
Doug Holt 08:21
Repression is what it is. That’s the word I was looking for.
Tim Matthews Yeah, definitely. There’s all sorts as well that swirls into that, right? Depending on whether either of those two have experienced any sexual shame in their life that could even come about within the relationship. Right? For whatever reason. But yeah, this idea of OnlyFans, well, Pod more so than only fans, I think it would be great to bring those guys on from Master Domain because I would love to hear some of their perspectives, because when we talk about repression, right? Hence, going to a site like that, that’s obviously what is coming up, right?
If somebody is choosing to choose porn over pursuing the wife or the partner, right? Because it’s easier to do that.
Doug Holt 09:11
That’s the reason.
Tim Matthews 09:12
Yeah. Than it is to initiate and put yourself out there and face a rejection, potentially, or whatever it may be. We’ve had a lot of guys in the movement that have been through that journey and in the process of going through that journey, letting go of the sexpectations as well that they have in the bedroom and being able to communicate what they want and do it from a place of honesty and strength and just ownership. Total opposite repression. Right?
And how the wife takes it is how the wife takes it. And when the guys are able, or when the guys do that and do it from that place, and let’s say they go to initiate and the wife says no, cool. Some guys grab the gym bag and hit the gym or go for a walk or whatever it may be. And in the process, they become very attractive as well to their partner, right?
Because they’re showing they’re not needed. They don’t need that sex from her in order to complete them or give them approval or whatever it may be. And equally, they’re not going to set off having pity sex either, where the wife just gives them sex because, well, they’re not going to beg for it because they’ve come from a place where in the past, some of them have begged for it. And like you’ve said, that isn’t great for the wife at all. It’s not a good experience for either of them, too. But point being, if all they ever do is turn to porn, they’re never going to get to that point.
Doug Holt 10:35
No, that’s 100% true, and that’s a big complaint women have. Women use porn, too. There’s no doubt about that. But men, I got to imagine, I don’t have this stat, but disproportionately greater amounts.
And a big complaint women have is that men use porn and therefore don’t pursue their wives. I have talked to a lot of guys. One guy I was talking to gosh, this is about three, four years ago, he was in the movement and he said, man, if your wife’s not attractive, here’s what you do. He was talking to another guy, and I just happened to be sitting at the table with him. He said, stop looking at all other women. No women on any site, no girls in bikinis. Stop looking at all women.
All of a sudden your wife’s going to become hot. No porn, nothing. What he was really saying there was one of the reasons you’re not attracted to your wife right now is you’re comparing her against these ideal, right? Your wife’s 47, and now you’re looking at 23 year old bikini models who are airbrushed. They don’t even look like that in real life.
I used to run a gym in Santa Barbara, and we had some models in there, and I’ll tell you what, they look completely different working out with no makeup on versus when they’re in a photo shoot. I mean, it’s a different human. And so what happens a lot of times with porn or anything else, you’re expecting that to be reality. And it’s not like all of a sudden the woman’s moaning and screaming, giving the guy a b******, right? Like. Come on. Good luck. This is the best thing ever.
I’m sure some women out there is like that, but that’s not reality, right? That’s just not reality. It’s acting just as if you’re watching a Highlander movie and you expect to cut someone’s head off and they come back to life or whatever. It’s just not reality. But it’s entertainment. So if you take it for the entertainment value and you use it, and you can use porn, I’ve used porn in relationships in my marriage to spice things up. And it’s not our thing, right, to do it, but we’ve tried it to see if is this for us, yes or no? No, it’s not really for us. Cool. Move on. But we tested the waters and trying something new to freshen things up, if you will.
So I don’t think it’s inherently bad. I have issues with porn. My issue with porn is my concern that there’s a large number that I read this of porn that’s out there that’s not consensual. So it’s human trafficking and things like that that really worried me. In fact, I saw it in a Ted Talk that really worried me about it, and that really turned me off to porn in general.
However, the concept of pornography in its sense of you had consenting people if all the check marks were there, I got no problem with it. It’s like anything. It’s how you use it. I got no problem with people eating sugar, but if you’re overeating sugar, you’re going to get diabetes. That’s a problem. PORN can be looked at in a similar vein. Different, but similar.
Tim Matthews 13:36
Yeah, I agree. I think from the topic of or the sense that if you’re having issues with intimacy in your relationship and you’re escaping to porn and you’re choosing to use porn over your wife or overcoming whatever issue it is in the relationship, I think that’s a problem for sure, because it’s just an escape at the end of the day. Right? It’s an easy out, and it enables you to not face the issue. I mean, I say it enables you to not face the issue.
The issue isn’t going to go away, and porn isn’t going to fill the void that you experience, the lack of connection with another human, you’re never going to get that through porn. Right? So I think if you’re not pursuing your wife and you go into it as a way to be able to either numb out. Some guys use it for that as well. We’ve worked with guys that have used porn to numb out.
Doug Holt 14:29
Oh, yeah. Or reduce stress or whatever.
Tim Matthews 14:30
Yeah, big time. So I think how you use it to your point is really important. So let’s say there’s guys listening to this, and they’re resonating. They are using porn. They are using porn more than they would like. They’re not addicted to it, but they’re using porn more than they would like, and it’s having an impact on their relationship. The wife doesn’t know, but it is resulting in them not pursuing the wife or whatever it may be. What advice would you give them?
Doug Holt 14:58
Cold turkey. I’m a big fan of cold turkey. Whether it’s drinking, smoking, eating, whatever it is, just go all in, right? Don’t be like, I know it’s against most conventional things, but just stop. And so what can you do? I know this because I’ve worked with so many guys who wanted to reduce their porn intake or stop, so I’ve helped them. They have browser extensions that you can install that won’t allow you to visit porn sites. You can put on safe search on Google, on Mozilo, DuckDuckGo, whatever you’re using. Microsoft Bing. Put on the Safe search, put on child protection on your computer. Make it hard for you.
So this is analogous to, so I’m starting my new diet tomorrow, the eating lifestyle. I’ve been on the road and then with you, been drinking beer, eating pizza, crappy food, put on weight, living the tomorrow. And so a part of that, I wouldn’t go out and buy cookies and put them in my cupboard and just say, Doug, don’t eat those cookies. You love cookies. Cookies are my favorite. As far as desserts know. Don’t eat them. No. What I do is I clear my cupboard out. I make it hard for me. I make me okay. If I want a cookie, I got to get in the car. I got to drive to the store. I got to go to the cookie aisle, buy the cookies, face the cashier or whatever. Now, you don’t have cashiers, but you get the idea.
I make it more difficult. I put more barriers. Drinking is the same thing, right? How do you want to stop drinking? Get alcohol at the house, do all those things? Same thing with porn. Make it hard for you to access porn. Doesn’t mean you’re not going to. Maybe you’re not. Hopefully you’re not if you’re trying to stop, but it makes it harder. And hopefully jumping through a few hoops, that reduces the triggers that get you there.
When I fasted, you fast, too. And I did a three day fast, which is interesting. And the most interesting thing I found about that three day fast is every time I walked past our pantry. So we have a hallway, and in the hallway, there’s a pantry at our house, and you have to walk through it’s like a natural walk through space, and I walked through it probably 20 times a day. And when I found myself, I found myself in the friggin pantry. I was like, why am I here? I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is so habitual, right?
Tim Matthews 17:13
Yeah, yeah.
Doug Holt 17:14
It’s just a habit that I was in. It’s like, oh, I got off a call. I got ten minutes, and I’m in the pantry. I’m like, wow, I’m not even eating right now. But I’m so used to being in that habit. Humans are such habitual creatures. I was in the habit of, okay, after this particular call, I have a snack, and here I am. I was like, what am I doing? You do the same thing with porn. So maybe it’s a stressor that triggers you wanting to porn. Maybe you’re just horny, maybe you’re tired. Who knows?
Same triggers that happen with people that drink or eat candy or do all kinds of smoke weed. Whatever it is, you don’t probably even know what those triggers are because they’re subconscious just go cold turkey and put barriers up. And another thing you can do is make sure that your computer screens all of them face out where other people can see. I’m just thinking these are things I’ve had guys do.
Tim Matthews 18:08
Yeah – [Crosstalk] Totally – [Crosstalk]. Just imagining it facing out.
Doug Holt 08:12
There was a guy I was working with who his office was arranged in such a manner? Because I asked him…
Tim Matthews 18:17
Oh, beautiful. Yeah. That people no one could see what he was doing.
Doug Holt 18:19
And he used it as the excuse of being but he was using it so he could watch porn in the office at work.
Tim Matthews 18:28
So taking it a step further, these guys are cutting out porn. Now they want to begin initiating with their wife more, but they’ve been rejected a lot, so they’ve stopped initiating for whatever reason. What advice would you give those guys to now redirect that energy they’ve regained from porn back into their marriage?
Doug Holt 18:43
First of all, I don’t know that you lose energy from porn, but maybe you do. I think you can, right? But you’re going to be doing something else. I think physical fitness is the best thing you can do, right? Because you’re just going to better yourself. You’re going to have some energy, theoretically have more testosterone, more frustration built up. So that’s a great way of doing it.
But dedicate it towards some involvement of bettering yourself, that’s also going to fill your cup at the same time. And I do think that something that exhausts you or makes you more tired is a better thing to do. And that’s usually physical exercise. What about you? What do you do?
Tim Matthews 19:21
Yeah, definitely exercise. It’s a big one. I’m trying to think back to times when Amelia hasn’t wanted to reciprocate the initiations. I think to your point, the big thing is focusing on me and making sure I’m filling my cup, and I’m feeling good, I’m taking care of myself. Could be working out, could be making sure I’m getting my hair cut, could be getting rid of all the crappy clothes, whatever it may be, just I’m feeling better, right?
And then I’m going to be more confident. And then typically, I’ll be more cocky and more playful and I’ll then initiate. And if she says whatever, I’ll handle it with a playfulness and I’ll make fun of her, or whatever it may be, I want to take it personal. Whereas if I’m depleted and I’m not working out and I’m not looking after myself and I go to initiate and it isn’t received very well, then you’re more inclined to take it more personal, right?
Doug Holt 20:19
Yes. Yeah, I think that’s a really good point and one should be used. Last question, are you going to share your passwords?
Tim Matthews 20:26
Yeah.
Doug Holt 20:27
Great. Fantastic. All right, guys, for whatever state you’re in, really, the thing here, really, we’re talking about is this idea of is porn or anything else porn in this particular situation detracting from the intimacy in your marriage, right? And if it is, it’s a problem.
Whatever’s detracting from the intimacy in your marriage. We’re not talking about sex, we’re talking about intimacy. That’s a big deal. So what you want to do is make sure you’re always having that intimacy and making sure if it’s porn, let’s go ahead and remove it. Remove it for 30 days and just see what happens. It’s only 30 days. Give it a shot and see what happens. And I think you’re going to find out that pursuing your wife and pursuing your goals is going to become much easier, as we say, the moment insight, take massive action. See you next time, the Powerful Man Show.
All right, guys, that’s a wrap for this episode. But as I always say in the moment of insight, take massive action. You see, there are two types of men that listen to a podcast like this, those that go on from one podcast or show to another just hoping things are going to change and realizing that they’re going to be in the same place month after month, year after year.
You see, I was this guy so I completely get it. You may just not be ready. But there’s also a second man, a second man that listens to a show just like this. And this is a guy who takes massive action so they can shorten the learning curve, compress time, and get RESULTS to be the WOLF. See, WOLF is an acronym for Wise, Open, Loving, and Fierce.
Now ask yourself, which one am I? And just be honest with yourself there. And there’s no judgment on my end. But if you’re ready to move from deactivated DEER mode, which is Defend, Excuse, Explain, and React to activated WOLF, Wise, Open, Loving and Fierce, then go over to thepowerfulman.com/grow. And go there now. In fact, I’ll make it super easy for you. I will even put the link right in the description here so you can just click it and go over there now to learn more. Guys, in the moment of insight, take massive action. Go from deactivated to activated, because like I said, life is too short for average and I’ll see you on the next episode!
