Episode #1054
A lot of men feel like they're doing everything they’re supposed to do, working hard, showing up for their families, keeping it together, but still feel empty, burnt out, or disconnected. In this episode, Doug sits down with master coaches Neil and Mark to talk about why so many high-performing men hit a wall and what finally gets them moving again.
You’ll hear honest stories from men who’ve spent years in therapy without results, the surprising stats around male loneliness, and why doing more isn’t the answer. This isn’t a motivational pep talk. It’s a grounded, straight-up look at how to reconnect with your power, your purpose, and your people, starting right where you are.
We also talk about what most men get wrong about asking for help, the slow death of becoming the nice guy, and how to stop pushing everyone away without even realizing it. If you've ever felt like you're carrying the load alone or just running on fumes, this conversation is for you.
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Get the free training at https://fixmarriage.thepowerfulman.com/scales. It breaks down exactly why your relationship feels off and gives you the tools to start leading again, without more talking, guessing, or fixing things by force.
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Doug Holt 0:00
Therapy has its place, but it’s not, to me. It’s like, you know, another guy said, “I just figured the testimonials... I figured you just paid people to do those.”
Mark 0:10
No, no. Unless you experience it, you don’t know, right?
Doug Holt 0:14
Nothing I cherish in my life ever came easy to me.
Neil 0:18
Twenty percent of the men this week have no friends had no, zero friends, like zero. We are entitled to have fun. It’s part of our DNA.
Doug Holt 0:41
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of The TPM Show. And once again, we have some very special guests. Two of our master coaches are in the studio with us today, and they are about to drop some knowledge bombs. They are fresh off of an Alpha Rising and an Alpha Reset. And we’ll describe what those are for those that don’t know, but we have some really interesting topics to dive into. Mark, Neil, thanks for being here, guys.
Mark 1:07
Thanks for having me, absolutely.
Neil 1:09
Yeah, indeed.
Doug Holt 1:10
Well, Mark, you’re just coming off of what three Alpha Risings, three Alpha Resets six total. Neil as well, coming off of back-to-back Alpha Rising and Alpha Reset. You’re about to jump into another Alpha Reset with Coach Steve.
Neil 1:27
I am, yes.
Doug Holt 1:28
Pretty amazing, guys. Surprised you’re still standing.
Mark 1:33
We’re not pretending to still be standing. This is a hologram.
Neil 1:40
This formaldehyde is keeping me alive.
Doug Holt 1:43
Well, I know from the coaching side I mean, you guys, as coaches, we go all in, right? There’s no man left behind at either of the events. And for those guys that don’t know, the Alpha Reset is our flagship four-day really kind of three-day experiential event. Within 96 hours, the man who walks in the door is completely different, almost unrecognizable certainly emotionally and spiritually unrecognizable the man who walked in.
And the Alpha Rising is the next level that builds upon that. The men get to walk. And so, when you do it, all of us as coaches have this idea: no man left behind. So you pour your heart and soul into it. I appreciate what you guys have done for these men. I had a chance to talk to a few of them they are absolutely glowing and radiating energy. You poured into them deeply. Well done.
Mark 2:34
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we did. It’s really amazing. You know, speaking of the concept of living it out being on mission I call it this: for me, it’s not a joke, and it’s not a job. It’s a mission. And it’s really important that men are safe in the world for girls and children, specifically girls though, and women. And it’s incredible what’s possible in a short space of time. Very few people believe us when we say, “Your life can be radically different in a few days.”
Unless you experience it, you don’t know, right? But it’s definitely for I mean, guys have said to us, “I’ve been in therapy for so many years and had to overcome a whole bunch of obstacles, including my own resistance to doing the work.” And once I’ve done it, it’s 20 years of therapy condensed into three days and more effective because there’s a change from within. And it’s not just the talk aspect. It’s a fundamental psychological shift.
Neil 3:45
It’s like a revolving door of psychological assessment it doesn’t get you where you want to be. We’re human beings, not doings. And I think that’s really a big key, isn’t it? We’ve noticed for 20 years I’ve been doing this and that’s the same thing I’ve heard so often. Yeah, therapy, it has its place, but it’s not, to me.
Doug Holt 4:04
Well, you can tell somebody, right? Like, I was just sharing with you guys I’m teaching first and second graders basketball. I can tell them how to shoot a basketball, or they can experience how to shoot a basketball. Which one do you think is going to be better? Yeah, exactly, you know? And like I said, talk therapy it’s got its place, it’s great but we sit here and hear men, Reset after Reset, Rising after Rising, event after event, talk about 20-plus years of emotional scars and trauma that they’ve never shared with another man, or what have you, and actually get to release it.
Because it’s a systematic process, right? We call it a transformational process. Drew called me out on this he was one of the members that was here. He’s like, “You’re way underselling this.”
But at the same time, another guy said, “I just figured the testimonials... I figured you just paid people to do those.” Like, no, no. We have hundreds of testimonials from real men who go, “I wish I would have done this earlier.” So I need to share this coming through. And it’s just so awesome, the work that the two of you have done with these men that I got to meet just a little bit ago as they’re heading home to their families for the first time, as one of them said to me. It’s absolutely beautiful.
We were talking off-camera about this idea of living it out, right? So at TPM, we have four core values. One of them is Living It Out, which means to us well, I’ll tell you what it means to me and what’s written down but we live the message ourselves. We eat our own cooking before speaking the message or telling the guys what to do. And we really do it. And we also, in our pursuit of our best lives like you said, Mark, on mission yeah, right. All three of us, I think, would say that this is what we’re here for. This work that we do is helping people specifically. And every year we give out an award for Living It Out. And Mark, you’ve won it, what, twice?
Mark 6:05
Became boring, yeah.
Doug Holt 6:08
What does Living It Out mean to you guys? Because I’m gonna guess a lot of men listening to this are very good at thinking it out. They’re very good at working in their business working it out, or at least in their business. But I would guess that most of them, if they’re really honest with themselves, are missing the living part. What does it mean to you, either of you?
Neil 6:38
It’s what I call embodiment. There’s a saying I always have when we learn something new, we are intellectualizing it. That’s psychological assessment. I’m just trying to figure this out, so I’m still in that process. And as we found out just this weekend, people get to realize they start to embody the feeling of being a certain person or a certain way of living, a certain way of life, and so it becomes automatic. So, you know, intellectualizing it as opposed to embodying that human being that I truly want to be the best father.
And for me, it’s a feeling. I love it. Like, you know, the sacrifices I’ve made, like you talk about being away from my son, you know, Mark being away from Bonnie, and, you know, his wonderful grandchild. And I can see it in his face how he embodies being a grandfather and a husband. It’s palpable. As we found out from this weekend it’s palpable when people are feeling. And you don’t get that when it’s intellectual. I can see it switch off energetically. It shifts from, “Oh, hang on a minute, he’s in his head,” and suddenly when he gets it, there’s just this energy shift.
You can see it and go, “Wow.” It’s a bit like you can’t see wind, but you can hear it. But when it hits you it’s that. It’s that feeling of energy that you get. And that’s what I get from being in the work, being in my truth, waking up every day going, “Okay, who do I get to be today?”
Doug Holt 8:16
Yeah? Love it. Love the wind analogy. I’ve never thought of it that way.
Neil 8:19
Yeah, yeah. That’s great.
Doug Holt 8:20
What’s Living It Out mean to you?
Mark 8:23
For me, it’s linked to integrity. So who I am as a person one of the words I describe myself as is an adventurer. So for me, Living It Out is living an adventurous life. That’s one of the aspects. The other aspect is I’m here for a purpose, and working with men is definitely a big part of my purpose and mission and consistently sticking to that and essentially expressing my gifts and passions for this life and for the different aspects of life.
Like you just mentioned, being a grandfather is one of my greatest joys these days because obviously I can, you know, when she’s noisy or messy, I can hand her back, which is awesome. So a lot of it for me is about integrity and being who I authentically am, and exploring that to the best of my ability. So when I go back from here, I’m taking Bonnie for a trip away to adventure to a country I’ve never been to before. So, you know, that’s for me Living It Out. I said to her, “I could come back home, get into projects we’ve got lots going on but I need a week with you.” So it’s prioritizing myself.
And what’s really important to me is, as I said, adventuring is one of them. So it’s being true to that.
Doug Holt 9:44
It makes a lot of sense. And I know for me which I shared with you guys earlier when I, as a business owner and entrepreneur before TPM, I would often, like, if I had free time, you know, specifically when I moved out of Santa Barbara because I didn’t know as many people, I’d think, “What are you gonna do with a free day?” I thought, “Oh man, I got so many cool things I’m gonna do. It’s gonna be great.” And that free day would show up the day to do whatever I want and I would end up working. I would dive into work to catch up on work. And if I’m being truly honest with myself, it was because I didn’t know what else to do.
Mark 10:22
Sounds like Doug needs a coach, Neil.
Doug Holt 10:26
Many years ago, many movements but I could always use it. Do you have any good ones?
Neil 10:31
No man’s an island. I’m sorry.
Doug Holt 10:33
100%. But I think of a lot of the guys when I speak to them at events or we’re doing a coaching program I’ll use that. I’ll tell that story, and I’ll just see the heads nodding. Like, “Oh, you have a free weekend. Your wife and kids are gone for whatever reason, you’re home. What do you do with that free weekend?” And a lot of the guys are like, “Well, I catch up on work.” You know?
And they’re doing it because we get, at least I do I get significance from the work I do. Right? So previously, I had several other companies. I’d get, you know, people thinking, “Oh wow, you’re so smart, you’re so good.” And I got all my accolades. I also didn’t know, like, “Oh, you know, I moved to a new area, so I don’t have friends to go play pickup basketball with.” Or in Santa Barbara, I played beach volleyball a lot, soccer a lot. Here in Central Oregon, they have this thing called snow you can’t just go out and play basketball.
Yeah, exactly. So again, it was that juxtaposition of building a life. I had built a life where I had a lot of free time. I was afforded a great luxury and that was my desk. That was what I was going for. And within that, though, I lost some of that ability to be me or have fun. I think, yeah, I see a lot of those guys do it. So when I think of Living It Out being on purpose, absolutely feeling 100% right and then being like, “You travel, adventure is very important to me.”
I think most men don’t stop to think about, “Why are you working? What are you trying to provide? And why are you doing it?” Because I’ll hear guys say, “Well, I’m working really hard because I want to spend time with my wife and kids, you know, when I get a little bit older, and I have some free time.” Yeah, guess what? That’s free. You can do that now. You don’t have to take them to a Michelin-star restaurant. You can even cook at home and spend more time together.
Neil 12:40
Yeah, they’re missing out when they’re not present to that, right? “I’m working hard here so I can do that later.” We went into The Power of Now today, didn’t we? Eckhart Tolle. Life is now. We’ve been creating this feeling of, “Well, I’ll do this for 20 years,” and suddenly, what your kids have left school and they’re gone. And hang on, where was I for 70 hours a week, 80 hours a week? You know, creating the freedom to say and that’s what I found in the processes we’re doing is there’s two main things: Decompression, or doing something for themselves. Filling the cup it doesn’t even happen. Yeah, it doesn’t. That’s the one thing that they struggle with.
Doug Holt 13:27
That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, that’s where it comes down to. Because I had the mentality if you would ask me to help you move, I’ll be there regardless of anything else. “You need that? Yeah.” “Oh, you got this burden? Give it to me, I’ll take it. I got it. I’m exhausted.” Mark, you got some problem? “I’ll take it. You go relax, you go have fun.” Yeah, I’ll take the burden. And a lot of men do that though. Yeah. Say, “Hey honey, you go to the spa, you go on vacation with the girls. I’ll watch the kids, clean the house, take care of everything.”
Mark 13:55
We had a guy at the Reset who’s living that exact example, and we set up a context for him to really experience what that’s like for him and what that limits in terms of other people being able to access who he is and what his gifts are, as I was saying earlier. And it’s so easy to do that and tick the box of work, tick the box of significance, and not tick the box of “I’m doing this for me.”
So, for example, first thing in the morning, what do I do? In certain parts of the year, when the weather’s good, it’s early morning archery with my son-in-law. We go out, we have these 3D targets, and we spend an hour. Then I’ll go for a run, come back, and then we go and do an hour of archery. And that’s the stuff that fills my cup but connects with him. You know, it’s leadership, it’s time doing something, it’s practicing a skill. So there’s a whole bunch of stuff that we can do that is useful.
And I think that’s important for men to know that filling my cup and Living It Out can be something really useful for my growth and life. Because the human doing aspect is exhausting it’s the path of force. So this is what we’re talking about: the path of flow, which is really filling our cups and being willing to put ourselves in that position of really feeling great. Guys are asking us how we have so much energy for what we do. I mean, when they heard this is the third of three events, they were kind of astounded because of how much goes into just one. And it’s because I believe it’s because we, well, other than the fact that we feed off each other, which is pretty cool, we’re a great team. It’s also that this means so much, and it fills me up so much, fills Neil up, fills you up so much, that we want to do more.
Doug Holt 15:49
That’s a life on purpose to both your points earlier, right? So a lot of the work I did before TPM and coaching was helping people find their purpose. And here’s the thing it’s not a six-month process. Here’s the short answer, right? Most people get it wrong. Well, first of all, most people don’t think they can live their purpose or live what they want to do. Right? They think they have to go do the job that they’re in. They’re stuck golden handcuffs or just stuck.
And then they have this daunting idea that, “I have to find my purpose.” And the reason they put so much weight on it is they think they have to find that one thing they’re going to do for the rest of their lives. Versus a purpose can last for a second, a week, a year, or a lifetime. And the best thing is you can always change.
Neil 16:37
It’s interesting you’re speaking into that. And like, as a child children are very much like beings. They just go from one flower to another flower. “Oh, let’s do this for a minute,” and then they go to the next. You know, that shiny object syndrome which is wonderful for children because they’re curious. But the component for me is we are entitled to have fun. It’s part of our DNA. But as we grow up and go through a school system that, in my opinion, is a 200-year-old dinosaur, it’s about doing. You can’t you’re now not allowed to have fun.
You’ve got to do your homework before you can have fun. I say, “No, you actually can have fun no matter what.” Yes, part of the process is doing homework but let’s have fun too. Let’s do this as well and go out there and be. And so we lost that along the way, and it becomes a badge of honor, doesn’t it? “Okay, I’m gonna work some more, I got this, you know, 90-hour weeks.” And it’s like, okay but how is that serving you? We’re killing ourselves.
Doug Holt 17:44
It’s also when I’m working when I do work a 90-hour week, let’s just say it’s often because I get so lost in what I’m doing from a place of joy and wonderment. That’s very different than having to do something, yes? Or hiding out which a lot of our guys do. “I’m not getting the love at home, the affection at home, my wife’s ignoring me, my kids don’t want me around. I’ll go work. I’ll go do this thing at my desk. I’ll go into my office.”
And we have the holidays coming up. What do we know about the holidays, right? All of a sudden, guys are going to be in close proximity with the people they love the most but don’t spend that much time with. And so there’s no hiding. And then they start small arguments. And if they haven’t filled their cup, if they’re not Living It Out, they’re under-resourced, as we would say.
Then these small little arguments about the dishes in the dishwasher not being put in right or, “You didn’t clean the coffee pot” they turn into huge upsets. “Well, I didn’t clean the coffee pot, but you didn’t take out the trash.” And next thing you know, you have these two people who love each other, can’t see each other, and they’re fighting and that distance grows bigger and bigger and bigger.
And that’s why, you know, Divorce Day is in January. It’s the number one time divorces happen. Because the wife typically is waiting till the holidays are over, kids are gone or kids are back in school. And then she looks back at those two weeks or so, or a week, that her husband’s been home in the house, and says, “Hey, we have nothing in common anymore.” Because he’s under-resourced. He hasn’t lived it out. Hasn’t lived his full life. He has nothing to give.
Mark 19:26
The piece that comes up for me and a few guys coming to this Reset were very much resisted by their wives on their way here. “Why are you going to this strange place in Central Oregon? Is it some kind of cult, or what the heck’s going on?” Then, “You’ll be unavailable to me,” and there’s some fear and mistrust and stuff that comes up.
And the guys who have themselves in a good place in the relationship, from the perspective of trust because they’re used to Living It Out have an easier time. And the guys who have been under-resourced and are trying to make up the difference by doing extra laundry or helping out or taking the kids to school or a sporting event one guy’s wife kind of created a setup. I don’t know whether it was subconscious or conscious behavior, whereby he would be late for the airport.
And then she’d put these things on him. And he wasn’t Living It Out he was just trying to survive and doing things for her to make her happy. And obviously, he loves his children, so he wants to do that. And then he sacrifices himself and causes a whole bunch of stress and then comes in here looking like a deer in the headlights.
Which, you know, essentially gave us some ammunition, frankly and yet it’s really serious, because that causes dis-ease. He’s not happy, not grounded. She’s not happy. She’s not getting a leader or a lover or a great, energized father, because he hasn’t resourced himself, as you say.
Doug Holt 21:11
Hey guys, I just want to share something with you. I’m sure we can both agree that in order to fix something, you need to know what’s broken. And not only do you need to know it’s broken, but have a step-by-step methodology on how you can fix it. That’s the easiest way to do it, right? Otherwise, you’re going to be toiling with things.
That’s why I created a free training a training that not only shows you how you got to where you are, where your relationship is missing that love, respect, admiration, and even intimacy that it used to have but also how you get it back. How do you retain that, where your wife’s looking at you the same way she used to look at you when she said, “I do”?
You know, I don’t know about you, but for me, when my wife looks at me like I’m her man, I feel like I can conquer the world. And I want that for you. Simply go over to thepowerfulman.com/scales that’s thepowerfulman.com/scales and I have a free video training for you. You can just click play and see if this resonates for you.
Now, back to the podcast.
Neil 22:14
And that’s what it comes back to. I believe that we, as men, the reason we do this work is because we’re not taught this. That’s the bottom line. We go, “What have I got to do to make this work?” And they don’t know. They literally don’t know. And that’s why I think TPM and The Activation Method are key components. If we could teach this in schools, we wouldn’t be sitting here now. And that’s, I think, the most frustrating thing for men they come into the room and they just have that blind spot. They can’t see it.
Doug Holt 22:46
It’s me. It was “DEER,” right? Guys go into DEERmode, which is an acronym we use for Defend, Excuse, Explain, React. And the thing that gets me is, one, the guys don’t know what they’re doing, right? Their wife is unhappy, and their kids are going to grow up to pattern exactly what that is. And that cycle just continues over and over again. You guys have heard well, I know you’ve heard me tell the story, but it’s not my original story about the ham going in the oven.
Mark 23:20
Oh yeah, we spoke about it at the Reset, didn’t we?
Doug Holt 23:29
But that’s still relevant, though it is. It’s the patterns and how we pass down patterns from generation to generation. And one of the things I love about the work that we do is we allow men the opportunity to break those generational patterns so they don’t have to pass them on to their kids. So they can live it out, and they can go back to their wife or not, if they choose not to or maybe they’re divorced or separated or whatever. But they can carry it into their next relationship, and they can show up as the man they’ve always been.
Mark 24:01
I think another component to this is accountability. And we had one guy calling the others out at this Reset. One of the simple examples was saying “my wife” as opposed to “Bonnie” or “Victoria,” or whatever her name is and having guys really pay attention to what’s important, what’s right in front of them, to extract the value. As opposed to, as you said earlier, just ticking the box “Oh, the wife.” I’ve had many guys say “the wife.” It’s not even my wife. So she becomes either a project or a component of life “the wife and the kids.”
I mean, what’s that about? Who are you being in that regard? You know? It’s not the business it’s my business, right? It’s my clients. They have a close connection with significance in that regard. So what is it that men need to get about the connection with Living It Out and being the best leader leader in the family that they can be?
Doug Holt 25:10
I think that’s a great question, Mark. What comes up for me is resentment. I think men start to distance their wife from their life because there’s resentment there, and they feel they’re being judged, or there’s shame or guilt around it. So therefore, if I distance her and call her “the wife,” she’s not part of me therefore I don’t have to experience those feelings.
Neil 25:37
It’s interesting what you’re speaking into there. One of the components of Living It Out calling it out, right? is one of our other values. One of the guys in this group, Mike amazing human he was in my TAM, and he said, “Neil, I would have never done what I did today three days ago.”
I said, “Well, what was that?” He said, “I called out somebody for something that was going on within the group. There was some side talk happening, and I said, ‘Hey guys, we need to connect with this. Can you not have a side talk going on over here?’” He said, “I didn’t do that before because I was so afraid of being ostracized or lashed out at.”
And I said, “That’s the greatness of this work. It’s all about tone and where you come from your tone is everything. If you come from love ‘Hey, I love you guys, but this isn’t working. We need to focus on this’ that’s leadership.” And it was such a powerful awareness. He had this beaming smile on his face because he said, “God, I’ve never done this because I’ve been so afraid of my own shadow. Now I just feel so wonderful that I can say something with love and not worry to showabout the consequences that were just a fabrication a story I made up.”
Doug Holt 27:12
This dovetails perfectly. I love that. I love that for him so much. And one of the guys told me, “Hey, you know, The Powerful Man I never got it until now. The power is from inside.” Yes! You’ve always had this power inside of you. We’re just helping you unlock it. You’ve got to do the work we’re just here to show you the way.
Mark 27:36
Yes, and it’s not about chest-beating macho.
Doug Holt 27:41
Thank goodness you guys are big guys. But it definitely is this is my game. And to see those men unlock this power, to see them really see themselves for the first time and this, I believe, is what their wives and their kids have been dying for all along. You know, one of the biggest frustrations when I talk to women is the reason they get resentful, the reason they get frustrated is because their man isn’t showing up as the man they see.
Neil 28:10
Yes.
Doug Holt 28:11
Or the man they married. The man they married but they married the guy that they knew he was going to become, right? That’s the future.
Mark 28:30
She’s the home improvement committee, right?
Doug Holt 28:33
Well, she’s investing, right? It’s like investing in stock. And so when a man stops showing up when he kind of dies and slowly dies inside for whatever reason, becomes the nice guy, doesn’t fill his cup, stops showing up for her she’s like, “I see what you could be, and you’re not doing that. So I hate you for that.”
Neil 28:54
Yes, and another thing in that same vein we as men, we kind of discovered it this weekend we’re told what to do as children. Then we become adults, we get married, and when the wife calls us out on something, saying, “Hey honey, I see your greatness, but you’re not there. What’s going on?” Instead of saying, “Oh,” and being humble about it, we’re like, “I’m not doing that. Who are you to tell me what to do?”
That comes from the little boy going, “I’ve got my agency. You’re not going to tell me what to do anymore. Stop bossing me around.” So now, in a relationship, that same energy shows up. What these men found out this weekend is, “Oh, wait a minute she’s my biggest cheerleader. She’s my advocate. She wants me to grow.” I got on a plane in July after we’d done our Reset, and I sat next to a woman who spent two hours crying with me, telling me about this lovely man she married who’s now no longer the man she married. It was a two-out-of-ten marriage.
By the time I got off that plane, I gave her your book, and I hugged the husband, and I said, “This is preventative medicine right here.” And her wife she’s his biggest cheerleader. And he just starts crying. And that’s what we forget. She is showing us something. And unconsciously or consciously, arrogance comes in “You’re not going to tell me what to do, I’m good” instead of just being humble.
Mark 30:26
I had an example of that at an airport. A couple was in a restaurant adjacent to the lounge, and I was sitting there. The couple behind me were having an argument. She was giving him all the theory of what he should be doing and what he isn’t, telling him she’s had enough, and sitting there drinking alcohol. He was sitting there staring this woman’s imploring him to show up and he’s just going redder in the face, drinking, getting more and more disconnected and shut down.
I followed him out. I think he went to the bathroom or something. I followed him, saw him coming back, and I said to him, “Listen, I work with men. I can help you. There’s a program here that’ll really make a difference.” “No, thank you,” was his answer.
I said to him, “Well, take my card anyway.” I gave him just written on a piece of paper my details to contact me for some help. And that’s the biggest thing that one of the men this weekend discovered the hardest thing for him is to ask for help. How the hell can you live it out when you’re trying to do it alone? We say “no lone wolfing,” but guys think, “I’ve got to figure this out in my head. I’ve got to do it alone.” No. These paradigms they’re not healthy masculine principles.
Doug Holt 31:39
Not at all. I mean, guys don’t ask for directions, right? I make a point of it because you’re smart but I think that’s the paradigm a lot of men come from. “I can’t tell Neil that my marriage isn’t working. Neil’s gonna think I’m less of a man or try to make a move on my wife,” or something like that. There’s fear there.
And what the guys don’t realize is Neil, in this example, doesn’t care. He can hold space, he cares, but he’s not judging. I think that’s a big thing. And when men come from a place of not living it out, they don’t have anything else to give. So when the wife comes up to them and gives them insights, that’s why they explode they’re not coming from a grounded state.
Mark 32:25
And when another man comes up to try and help, there’s mistrust. Because why should I trust men? They’re always trying to screw me over in business, or there’s competition. So men, as far as we’re concerned we spoke about this weekend creating a world where men can open up and trust each other and not feel threatened by each other, that’s the potential for changing the world in a really big way.
Doug Holt 32:52
A really big way, right? Especially when men are the leaders of the house, right? Most places, theoretically, could be the leaders of the house, and having that ripple effect, right?
Neil 33:02
Twenty percent of the men this week have no friends had no, zero friends. Like zero.
Mark 33:10
Like nobody you can call in a time of need. Wow. That made me so sad. Now, I’ve got some really good friends, a couple of whom are in this room. You know, how poor is that of a life to have no close, connected male friends?
Doug Holt 33:27
I think my gut tells me that if we did a sample size of the listeners, it’d be much greater than 20%. And my guess would also be that a lot of those guys have friends from, like, high school, middle school but no friendships that they’ve made since then. I call them “Remember when” friends. “Oh, you remember when we used to do this thing? Remember when, in high school, we played football?” Remember when that’s the common ground.
Neil 33:55
Nostalgic friends.
Doug Holt 33:59
Convenience because they have trust from a young age, you know? But they don’t have connections they can call about real stuff.
Mark 34:05
Well, they do now they’ve been to the Alpha Reset, that’s right.
Neil 34:10
They’ve got 11 other friends or 10 other friends they can count on. And they truly mean that.
Doug Holt 34:17
What’s the most common thing we hear, right? These guys say they’re brothers for life. People think it’s a cult, right? But no they mean it. They’ve seen these guys go through this crucible, if you will psychologically and come out the other side stronger, and they’ve had each other’s backs the whole way. It’s amazing. And we talked about that when you couple that with the idea of Living It Out, right now you have people to actually go do stuff with, to share things with, to do life with.
Neil 34:50
Expansion of life. I mean, 18 months ago, my dream was, “How do I create community for myself when I work on Zoom all week?” That’s my business. And when I get off that, there’s this void. And suddenly, 18 months later, here I am my dream has come true, because I was committed to that. And for us men, it’s a commitment to stay in Living It Out. It’s like, I’m true to my word, and I’m committed to that, and I declared that’s what I want, and I’m going after it.
It takes effort. It’s easy to sit at home, it’s easy not to get out of bed and go do a cold plunge and then go work out. The easiest part is to turn around and walk away from a marriage, yes. Better to do the work invest in this. What’s available on the other side of investing in yourself is magical.
Doug Holt 35:47
Nothing I cherish in my life ever came easy to me. Right? Can anybody think of anything that you absolutely cherish that was easy? There are great things that happen that are easy, but nothing that you think about, reflect on, or are proud of. There’s nothing that I’m proud of that was easy.
Mark 36:09
For me, there’s a distinction there. Often I’ve created the opportunity, and it’s been easy it’s kind of landed for me, landed in my lap. Or it’s been, you know, an introduction from Arthur that led to a phone call with Tim and a phone call with you. I remember where I was when you and I spoke. That was the easy part. The hard part is showing up every single damn day and keeping on, keeping on, right? Because it’s important to me.
Doug Holt 36:37
That’s a great distinction, and that’s exactly what I meant. You showing up every day I know you and I have spent a lot of time together, and some of your past, you’ve had hard times that most people wouldn’t push through or pull themselves out of, and you have. That’s what I mean by the hard work so when you get that opportunity, when an old friend you hadn’t spoken to in a while reaches out to you, you’re prepared. You’ve done the work.
Neil 37:08
And it’s like this squeaky wheel, right? Every day I wake up, and I have my relationships, and I’m conscious of them. For the men out there it takes what you become great at. Living It Out I’ve become great at it, but the only route out, the reason I say those things like, “I wake up every day and say, okay, I’m leaning into this right now because this is uncomfortable.”
“What is this about me? What’s going on with my kid, my ex-wife Andrea?” There’s an opportunity here for growth. And if I’m not living in that discomfort, I’m not growing in it. So it’s always, every day alright, I could easily turn around, walk away from this, and ignore it. But that doesn’t work. It’s gonna come up later anyway.
Leaning into your edge that’s it. Leaning into my edge every day. That, to me, is automatic. But for those men out there, it takes practice and as we said yesterday, the more I practice, the luckier I get.
Doug Holt 38:18
A hundred percent right. I mean, think back to when you first started trying to drive a car and all the things you had to remember, right? The blinkers, the pedals, the clutch or not. And now, sometimes you just wake up at home and think, “How did I get here?” You’ve all had those moments where the driving just happens because you’ve done so many reps.
For the two of you sitting on this couch doing the work that a lot of these men listening want to do it’s like that driving, right? You guys have lived the message. We talked about integrity earlier Living It Out is being in integrity. You guys have been. You guys are. And the thing I love about both of you, individually and collectively, is your version of “and now what?” How do we add more? Peel back the layers, add more tools to the tool belt.
Neil 39:14
And I think one of the biggest components of that is accountability. I can and I do I wake up every day and work out, it’s automatic for me. But there are certain parts of my life I know, and having Mark in my life, you in my life it’s accountability. And that is key to being successful. There’s a quote out there 87% of people who are held accountable reach their goals. And mine’s no different. We’re no pointy end of the stick, man. That’s it.
Doug Holt 39:47
Well, and you have people around you who’ll call it out, right? “Hey, look, you’re slipping here.” And you said it earlier it’s the tonality and where that place comes from. It’s different than being scolded. It’s not, “Hey, you’re messing up.” It’s, “Hey, you know, Mark or Neil or Doug, I’m seeing you slide over here, man I care, and I’m letting you know.”
Neil 40:07
Yeah, not from shame as we speak about it’s from, “Hey, I love you enough to be honest.”
Mark 40:11
Yes. The challenge is that a lot of people in relationships not just women, men as well don’t necessarily have a clear and loving way of communicating, “I want you to be better because I see so much in you.” It comes out as, “Hey, what the hell, dude? Why didn’t you ?” or whatever.
And to be the man who is Living It Out, who trusts himself it’s much easier to receive that. I used to reject criticism. I now welcome it. Give me feedback, tell me what I can do better, because I want to learn. I want to grow. When we drop that self-righteous assholeness and are willing to learn, grow, and expand as human beings, fathers, leaders, and men that changes the dynamic.
And the willingness to live it out, I believe, is what gives us that security. When we do the work know thyself we’re able to receive feedback and get incrementally better. It’s not because I’m coming from “I’m not good enough.”
Doug Holt 41:20
Love that. Absolutely. Well, guys, like I said, I appreciate both of you so much individually, collectively the work that you’ve done with these men this past week, the week before, for you, the week before that, and the week before that. And you’ll continue on into next week. I’m flying out to the Napa wine valley region. I think there’s going to be about 50 guys in total there, serving and connecting it’ll be a lot of fun too. Great time for The Brotherhood event. So thank you, guys. Thank you for what you do, what you stand for, and for Living It Out.
Mark 41:56
Always. No excuses.
Neil 41:59
No excuses.
Doug Holt 42:02
Awesome. Well, gentlemen, that’s a wrap for us today. But as I always say in the moment of insight, take massive action. You have two shining examples of men, men just like you, who are Living It Out. They’ve chosen a path to live it out on their own terms. You can pick your own terms and what Living It Out means to you. But what I’m going to recommend you don’t do is hide out. There’s no need to be by yourself.
There’s a group of men within The TPM framework that you can connect with. And if it’s not within TPM, find your own tribe. Find your own group of men. Iron sharpens iron. You want guys playing at a high level. At TPM, most of us are fathers who are also businessmen, and that’s the level we play at. We have high standards for ourselves and for those we spend our time with.
Our values are really high. That may not be you and if it’s not, then find the group that is. But either way, if something we’re talking about resonates, I invite you to reach out to one of our program advisors and just have a conversation. That’s all it is get your questions answered. It’s completely easy, and it’s one of the ways you can take a step forward up the ladder. We’ll see you next time on The TPM Show.