Episode #854
Join us for a deep dive into the complex world of apologies in relationships in this insightful episode of The Powerful Man podcast. Hosts Doug Holt and Tim Matthews explore why women often struggle with saying “I’m sorry,” and how this dynamic affects marriages and partnerships.
In this episode, we uncover the psychological and emotional factors that contribute to this phenomenon, discussing real-life examples and expert insights. We also offer practical advice for men on how to navigate these challenging situations, fostering better communication and deeper connections with their partners.
Whether you’re experiencing difficulties in your marriage or simply want to understand the intricacies of relationship dynamics better, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways. Tune in and discover how to create a more harmonious and loving relationship, even when apologies are hard to come by.
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Transcription
Tim Matthews 0:00
If I say I’m sorry, that therefore means that I have to carry an increased emotional burden and emotional load in the relationship.
Doug Holt 0:09
I’m sitting here, why do I have to apologize all the time? Why do I have to come clean? Because if I don’t do it, she’s going to Stonewall me. She doesn’t ignore me. She’s gonna yell, scream whatever else it is, but
Tim Matthews 0:22
sharing with her why it’s important to you that she apologizes, see? No, that isn’t going to happen again.
Doug Holt 0:38
I’m sorry. When’s the last time your wife actually apologized and told you she was sorry. And why don’t women apologize in general? Well, that is the topic I got thrown on the table today. And that’s what Tim and I are going to discuss. Why is it that women seem to not want to or choose not to apologize and relationships? Tim, great to have you back, man. As I said before, if guys didn’t listen to the previous episode, we got you back in the States. You’re back at the TPM Ranch. We just had an amazing event with 10 quality guys from all over the world, an epic three day experience. And now we’re about to enter into our leadership retreat, where other Rails is flying in today. Around the World. Hmm.
Tim Matthews 1:19
Yeah, that event was epic. That was something else spoke with one of the guys this morning. Just totally Ragnar, hey, so he got home at midnight. And him and his wife just stayed up talking until 3:30am. And then, they just fell asleep with her check her head on his chest and didn’t wake up till 10am. And it just said, it just feels incredible. And this is one of the guys that has really struggle to win his wife back from an intimacy perspective. Yep. Over the past. While he was, uh, now it’s totally changing. But coincidentally, going back to the previous episode about attention. We spoke about those two possibilities what your wife can do either seek it elsewhere, or whether his wife or with it. So he’s really bright back from that place in the past few months. Falling asleep with her head on his chest is a huge deal.
Doug Holt 2:17
Oh, huge, huge deal. She’s saying I’m safe. I trust you. Yeah, yeah. So shoot. So you brought this interesting conversation up before we hit record? And you were talking about hey, you know, why don’t women, it was a very charged response to it. Yeah. Actually share a little bit. So
Tim Matthews 2:35
this came up a few weeks ago, in conversation with one of the men. And as he was sharing this, the other men were nodding their heads. And there was this shared collective confusion, frustration, and almost feeling like a double standard pneus to it of, Hey, hang on a minute, I’m expected to completely on my side of the street and say I’m sorry, and be direct and be clear and be vulnerable, and so on and so forth. Yeah. How come when there’s an opportunity for my wife, my partner, the other person to do the same thing and say, I’m sorry, obviously, they’ll do it differently, because men versus women, but nevertheless, use those two words? How come those words aren’t very usually forthcoming? And I was thinking, Hmm, good point. Good question. Because I’ve heard in the past as almost like, a bit of a myth, like something that kind of goes around. So I started to speak to various women and ask them, Hey, do you ever say I’m sorry? In a relationship? And each of them basically said, no. Okay, how come? And at first, they’re all defensive. I was asking what’s going on in your relationship? Why do you need to say sorry, it’s not about that. I’m genuinely curious as to what dynamic is at play here. That’s meaning that you want something from us from men that you guys are willing to give. And that’s okay. I’m cool with polarity and all that stuff. I just want to understand it. Like what’s going on? Because there’s a guy when your woman doesn’t say I’m sorry for some thing that she’s clearly in the wrong file, whether it’s an agreement that’s been validated or whatever, it can be frustrated. It can definitely be frustrating.
Doug Holt 4:39
I’ve called my wife out on this many times. Me
Tim Matthews 4:42
too with Amelia Yeah, big time. So anyway, yeah, we could dive into the dynamics had to do some research, frankly, to understand this beat from speaking to those women, and just looking at things. What I found interesting, one of the things that they said, all these women said and if From where, but was the idea that? Well, if I say I’m sorry, that therefore means I have to carry an increased emotional burden and emotional load in the relationship?
Doug Holt 5:14
Really? Yeah, it’s interesting, trust them. Yeah. And I want to give a little context here, because there are women who do apologize. When my wife does apologize. It’s a very structured apology, kind of like we teach the men to do. And it’s because she’s been coached to do it, right. So she’ll come back and say, Hey, what I said, or did, you know, it wasn’t cool, etc, etc. But I do call her out often on like, hey, you’ve never friggin apologize. You know? Do you realize this? And you know, me, I’ll give her a hard time. Like, all right. If I choose to go in, I go all in. And so I do think there are women out there that do it. But to your point, I don’t think I think a lot of men would nod their heads as I am. And these other guys, it doesn’t seem to happen. Now, when you say these the increased emotional burden? Are they saying that they have to carry the weight emotionally of their wrongdoing? So therefore, it’s a character issue for them or something else? I
Tim Matthews 6:08
think so. Yeah, I think they’re also carrying the burden of the past several decades of how they feel. And they told me this, how women were viewed in society as well. And if they’re then said, there was sorry, because they were typically viewed as being inferior in many ways, that it would be seen as a sign of weakness, and it would add to that inferiority, and therefore display more weakness. And they didn’t want to be seen that way to having to try and be seen as being strong or capable, or whatever. So therefore, an admission of guilt, I’m sorry, is like, oh, it can be a little bit of a to too heavy to carry that burden for a character perspective, I think, yeah.
Doug Holt 6:58
Do you think there’s an element I’m listening to, as you’re saying this, and I’m thinking of the women that I know, and the conversations I’ve been privy to, is, for women men have this to but women more than men from society and everything else, they are in the back of their head, there’s a consistent worry that they’re not good enough, therefore, their man will leave them and find somebody better. Right, more so than men, I think. And I’m wondering if that plays in a role in here subconsciously, if they admit that they’re wrong, then their quote, stock, so to speak, goes down, and he’s going to find somebody who’s right. Right, who’s not flawed, so to speak. Yeah,
Tim Matthews 7:39
I think that could definitely be something for sure. Through reading through one of the points here from from the research scene, that research shows that men tend to be more direct and solution focused, as we know, while women may prioritize maintaining harmony and emotional connection, which can influence their approach to apologizing, Salma if you want to maintain harmony, that was more of a default. And this is kind of science backed than I had imagined yet saying, I’m sorry, as to then acknowledge that this isn’t some disharmony that exists. Which can then I guess, be scary to upon
Doug Holt 8:15
all the women that listen to this, I’m gonna let you know right now that that’s not how it works for us. We just want the occasional apology.
Tim Matthews 8:23
I mean, just interesting. I wonder if it’s a little I love languages, you often give love the way you want to receive it. So therefore, I wonder as a guy, do you then therefore want to receive an apology in the way that you give one. And there’s an interest in tech we want to meet in a few months ago. And I’ve been talking about something similar because I ended up going on the love languages site. That was a test for the apology languages. I haven’t heard of that. Yeah. And I can’t remember the six different ways. But when I did the test, one that ranked highly the highest for me was taking responsibility. Yeah, you’re good at that. So therefore, if someone’s apologizing to me, yep. And they’re not taking responsibility. But again, I can’t think of the different in love languages. There’s five different types of thing, quality time acts of service. I’m going to go through them all. The same exists for the apology languages. So yeah, I wonder if I got
Doug Holt 9:24
them right here.
Tim Matthews 9:25
Yep. All right.
Doug Holt 9:26
So we got expression of regret. Okay. explanation of what went wrong. acknowledgment of responsibility. That’s yours. You just talked about declaration of repentance, offer to repair or request a request for forgiveness. I wonder which one Mine would be. Anyway, the show is not about me. So I’ll figure it out. I probably do them all. But so if that’s the case, and we’re talking about this, let’s just assume and by the way, this is a core been to a study published in two in 2016 from negotiation, and Conflict Management Journal didn’t even know there was a journal on that, that these are the languages. This actually says the effectiveness requires these apologies, this is not that is languages. So basically, Gary, put them into five. So Gary’s one, Chapman wrote The Five Love Languages. So he says, expressing regret accepting responsibility making restitution, generally repenting and requesting forgiveness. So he’s basically taken these and rewritten them into more of a book going through it. Which is really interesting. Go ahead when
Tim Matthews 10:41
I was 20, consider it from a perspective of bids for connection. Yeah, right. All the goblins work around the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, essentially, that happens in a relationship when it breaks down signals advice. One of the key things is how you repair a situation. And how a couple handles that repair have a breakdown is really important, which essentially an apology, and how the apology comes in, be it that whatever wherever those five ties into that, right, because that’s how you then repair the situation. And I’d be really curious to find out honestly, for men, how much mud they feel is left on the glass, by a woman not apologizing in a way that they want to be apologized to. Just like for a woman of when a guy doesn’t give them love in the way that they want to be loved the quality time or attention even like we spoke about before, that creates more than the glass for them. resent
Doug Holt 11:45
that right? Yeah, I’ve definitely been in that. And I have a big teenager me. So like, Shocking, I know. But I’ll hold on to that resentment. And it’s definitely happened in my marriage, where an apology wasn’t given properly, in my opinion. And I’ll call it out. You know, and if it still isn’t given, I will hold resentment to that. I don’t like to admit that. But that’s the truth. I’ll stay pissed and have resentment come through. And eventually I’ll forget about it. We’ll move on. When I think about my wife, and how does she handle it? It does feel like she you know, when she doesn’t follow a methodology right? So just more naturally, she I feel like she brushes it under the carpet. But then she tries to connect in a different way. Later on. It’s not clear what Amelia does. Yeah. And almost the way I think about it, what came to my mind and when we’re talking about this is like the whole thing like men are dogs, women are cats, right? Think about that. So if a dog does something wrong, it kind of quivers and comes back and almost apologizes instead, or just knows that it did something wrong. But if a cat does something wrong, the cat just leaves. give a fuck. And then eventually, though, the cat might come back and purr on your lap, almost as if nothing’s happen, women seem to do something, or at least my wife seems to do something similar to that, or analogous anyway, to that. It’s almost like it never happened. The injustice that was put upon me. Never happened never occurred. And you know, but however, hey, let’s watch a movie tonight together and she’ll lay on my lap or what you get what I’m saying? Whatever it is. And
Tim Matthews 13:29
as soon as you’re intimate physically, the world is good. All is forgiven. That’s why with me to apologize, because you realize, well, you know, we’ll just have sex later. That’ll be fine. Yeah, they
Doug Holt 13:41
have a button. Yeah. Cuz I
Tim Matthews 13:43
was gonna say, I don’t think real women realize the impact this can have. I
Doug Holt 13:49
don’t think they realize they’re doing it.
Tim Matthews 13:52
I agree. Because when I spoke with those women first I didn’t like because I was asking questions. I started to realize, Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, oh, we’ll both learn in in those conversations. Sure. But yeah, I don’t think they’re I also don’t think, fair, I didn’t ask them this, but based on the surprise in some of their responses. I also don’t think they’d been asked those questions ever in the life and even considered them.
Doug Holt 14:24
Hey, guys, sorry to interrupt this episode. But the reality is, if you are watching or listening to this right now, then you are looking to better yourself and I applaud you, you’re one of my people. And I want to give you the opportunity of taking massive action. So if you haven’t joined The Activation Method, yet, it’s our flagship program. Do what 1000s of other businessmen just like you have done and take action. Be one of the one percenters that actually does the work and takes action. There’ll be a link in the description that will take you right to a page they’ll just give you more Information, there is no obligation. Just go check it out and see if it’s a good fit for you. Alright, let’s get back to this episode. But
Tim Matthews 15:07
I do believe a wonder. On one hand I feel like this is a big deal for guys to point resentment because you can certainly build absolute centerfield in just but on the other side at the same time when guys and then physically intimate that they’re going to feel the most connected to so that resentment and injustice is softened somewhat doesn’t go away though. But definitely assault at least in my experience definitely softens. So I’m just wondering how, how heavy this actually wears and a guy over time thinking what on the glass? Yeah, how much would actually add as a woman continues to do this?
Doug Holt 15:50
Yeah, I think I think it definitely happens quite a bit. Right. And the guys will talk about their wives being selfish. Right? I think a lot of times when they talk about their wives being selfish, this is one of the things they’re talking about. Right? I’d agree. I’m sitting here, why do I have to apologize all the time? Why do I have to come clean? Because if I don’t do it, she’s going to Stonewall me, she’s gonna ignore me she’s gonna pass she’s gonna yell, scream whatever else it is, if he doesn’t apologize. There’s also different needs that men have versus women. I think we can’t get away from that we’re just we’re different. The genders are different species, right? Almost. We’ve looked at that in the animal kingdom, anywhere else and humans are animals. Right? We we look at the the male species, definitely we look at the female species. But for some reason, in our society, we just say all men and women are equal or not, we should have been be equal opportunities or other things. But we’re not men are physically stronger than women are some not all, but most. It’s just a natural thing, because we have more testosterone, more opportunity for that. Now we know this, we’re looking at this, we’re like, oh, wow, it’s true. I didn’t know that. That is applied to all women. Just that was just my wife, honestly. I thought wow, Aaron, I thought assume
Tim Matthews 17:01
about Mila. Yeah. I never thought to ask
Doug Holt 17:06
at all kinds of very nice thoughts go through my head when I when I think of it. So now as men, what are some things that we could do with this revelation? To help ourselves out? Well,
Tim Matthews 17:15
just again, looking through his research, you’ve mentioned a few of them. I think it does come down to recognizing, and just acknowledging the fact there’s gender differences, right. And if we acknowledge that we can leverage them. And one of the practical tips, number one, encourage open communication, which, you know, in my experience, still doesn’t necessarily get the words I’m sorry. Yep. Because of the gender differences. And again, just looking at the research here, it says, because of the gender differences in communication styles, societal and cultural influences, which those are the expectations that society hasn’t a woman can impact the willingness to apologize, even if you create a safe space. And also, the third piece within that research was the emotional labor within the apology that so recognizing that for a woman to apologize, it can often carry a high degree of emotional labor. So that first idea, according to this of a guy could encourage open communication. Sure. It’s always going to help. It’s never going to work against you don’t think it’s going to be effective. Or maybe one in 10 times it might be, but the second one, recognizing nonverbal apologies. Yeah. Which that’s definitely Amelie has method and sounds like it’s Erin’s sometimes too. And then the third point is, I don’t think this one works. So sorry about this. But modeling apologetic behavior. Yeah.
Doug Holt 18:54
I agree. throw that one out. Yeah. So I think you still get to do that, right?
Tim Matthews 18:59
100% 100%, or you get to do all these, all three of these encourage up in communication. Yep. Recognize non verbal apologies, a model apologetic and just understand the undercurrent here, because if we are going to agree that there’s a gender differences, and we are going to agree that society, both genders have been through a journey over the past however many decades through society, therefore there have been different cultural norms and expectations played on placed upon men and women, that maybe this is just a biological thing. Maybe this is just part of what it means to be a woman and the world you’ve grown up in and saying those words and accepting that burden is just a little too much. So as men, are we okay with that? And do we want to just recognize the nonverbal ways and appreciate them? Would that make life easier? I think so.
Doug Holt 19:53
I think it would do and I’ve coached guys through versions of this Tim not with this specific subject, but basically the idea give, you know, if your kid does something wrong, you don’t always have to have them apologize like their child. And so you don’t let it roll off your back. Just don’t sweat it, just don’t sweat it. And I think as men, we get to do we get the chance to do that don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s all small stuff at the end of the day. So that’s obviously one other thing came to mind when you’re saying that is okay, open communication. And I was like, Okay, do guys really know what that looks like? And how to address it, you know, to openly communicate. And so what that could look like in my mind’s eye, right off the top of my head without thinking about it, is you could go to your wife and say, hey, look, you know, you cut me down in front of the kids, is it won’t work, right? And what I need you to do is actually take time to apologize. So you and so I know that you understand what happened won’t work for our family, or won’t work for me, I need to actually hear you say the words I’m sorry. Otherwise, it’s not going to land for me. And I’m going to carry that on the anger and upset on moving forward. It’s a very direct way, then you could also throw in something like, Look, I’m not gonna hold this against you. You know, this isn’t about you as a character flaw. This is about just the action. And for me, I just need to hear an authentic apology.
Tim Matthews 21:17
I mean, the guys listening to this podcast, even, I’m thinking about myself as well. If I’m aware of some of the dynamics and the burdens, I can then use them to my advantage by validating her concern about apologizing, prior to asking, making the request, yep. Right. The other thing as well, again, when I was speaking to these women, I’m like, why is it that you want those guys to be direct? And take responsibility and ownership when we apologize? Is it because you want to know that we realize what we did? wasn’t okay, and you want us to change behavior. In order to change that particular behavior, we need to see it, recognize it on it for it to change. And therefore that then makes you feel more emotionally safe or seen or whatever. They said, yes. Okay, cool. Got it? Well, I think the same is true for guys, for women. If that instance of speaking to me, certainly in front of the kids, you’ll hear that a lot from the guys. Right? I think asking for the apology in that scenario. By validating the concern the woman may have around apologizing, but sharing with her why it’s important to you that she apologizes so you know, that isn’t going to happen again. And one of them provide you with could also go somewhere. Not gonna say it’s gonna work. It could go somewhere and get an apology. Absolutely.
Doug Holt 22:54
I love it. Absolutely love it. So what gives? Leave these guys with one action step? What would you tell a guy right now? I
Tim Matthews 23:04
would tell them to recognize the nonverbal apologies, honestly, yeah, in your advice of let it roll off the back. And that’s what the small stuff is, is really important. I’m assuming the guys have healthy boundaries in place. All the guys we work with, that’s a big thing for them, they’re very good. They get very good at creating them in setting healthy boundaries. I think when they’re in place, the need for the new tower I’m sorry, becomes less and less. Because you just know who you are. I know what you stand for. It doesn’t really matter. And it enables you to not sweat the small stuff as as easily. So yeah, I’d look recognize a nonverbal apologies. And appreciate them, and just kind of sweat the small stuff.
Doug Holt 23:46
Yeah, I’m gonna leave him with one more if I can, is I think what I’m going to do. And I think what guys could do is be like, Hey, I heard this really interesting podcast. You know, if guys, if you see this happening, on that women have different ways of apologizing than men. Do you find that to be true? Right, not an accusation conversation, but kind of like you did with these other women like, Hey, I’m seeking to understand, do you find that to be women, you know, different and see what your wife says, she’s probably never thought of it. Right? And if anything, this gives you guys an interesting connected conversation to have, where you can form intimacy, not physical, but that can end up that way. But you can get more intimate by knowing each other better. And you’ll walk out of this conversation if you do it right. And you guys are in a good place with knowing how each other actually receives apologies.
Tim Matthews 24:36
Regret when payments are not test yet, you can take that test, which
Doug Holt 24:40
I’ll be taking, you know, I’m still trying to figure out what the which way I do it. It’d be interesting to see what comes up with because I feel like I do a lot of those. And that list, but like The Five Love Languages, there’s probably one I do it predominantly. Yeah, the willbe Well, awesome. Thanks for bringing this topic. It’s a great conversation. Yeah, thank
Tim Matthews 24:55
you. Gentlemen,
Doug Holt 24:56
as we always say in the moment of insight, take massive action So there will be a link in the description for you as well. Make it work, have that conversation or to Tim’s point, just look for the nonverbal apologies look for him. And not just from women and I’m sure men do them too, right? But look for him to see. And the last thing is just don’t sweat the small stuff. I remember reading the book, don’t sweat the small stuff. It’s all small stuff in my 20s recommend that it is all small stuff at the end of the day. Focus on what you want what you desire, so you can move in the direction of a powerful man. Guys, take some action. We’ll see you next time on the TPM show.
