From DEER to WOLF: Transforming Emotional Responses

Episode #1120

Are you reacting to your wife’s emotions instead of leading through them? In this episode, Tim and Stephen discuss the transition from being a reactive "Deer" to becoming a grounded "Wolf" Wise, Open, Loving, and Fierce. They break down the "Safety Test," explaining that when a woman brings intensity or emotion, she isn't looking for a problem-solver; she’s looking for a man who can hold steady and provide a safe space for her to land.

The conversation highlights the common pitfalls of "DM Mode" Defending, Excusing, Explaining, and Reacting, and how these behaviors are often rooted in a man’s internal sense of shame or failure as a provider. By understanding the somatic elements of presence, such as breathing and posture, men can learn to quiet the frustration in their heads and truly hear their partner’s emotions.

Hungry for more?

Head over to our BONUS page for special access to some of the deeper tactics and techniques we’ve developed at The Powerful Man.

Also listen on:

iTunes
Spotify

Transcription

 Stephen 0:00
You can't stay tensed up and ready to fight if you've taken a couple of big breaths.

Tim Matthews 0:04
I think being able to spot a safety test is one of the key skills.

Stephen 0:09
It's impacted pretty much every area of my life, which has been awesome.

Tim Matthews 0:13
And that betrayal of trust could have been one instance, or it could have been built over years.

Stephen 0:18
They're looking to see whether you're going to hold steady.

Tim Matthews 0:21
And for problem-solving guys, that can feel alien.

Stephen 0:25
Of all of it, actually, the somatic piece is the biggest just taking that breath.

Tim Matthews 0:41
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the TPM Show. My name is Tim Matthews. I am your host, and I am joined by the wonderful Mr. King of Cheese.

Stephen 0:49
Hi, Tim. How's it going?

Tim Matthews 0:51
Mr. Stephen Fleming.

Stephen 0:54
Good, thank you. Really good.

Tim Matthews 0:56
If you caught the last episode, you will have heard Stephen's 32-second intro, if you will, on his journey with TPM. However, if you didn't, just give another quick overview.

Stephen 1:07
Sure. I came into TPM around six years or so ago from a point of feeling very lost and unsatisfied in my life, my relationship, and my business. It's transformed things for me. I've really, really enjoyed it. Being a business owner with a wife and kids as well, it's impacted pretty much every area of my life, which has been awesome.

Tim Matthews 1:33
I love that. Okay, brother. Well, we put a post in the TPM app, which is a private community for everybody in the movement. We let them know we were doing podcasts today, and they gave us some topics. You've picked one out. What do you want to do?

Stephen 1:50
Sure. One of the guys has asked a question about how to level up and not just be a wolf outwardly, but be a wolf internally in the midst of a safety test. How to go to the next level and quiet the frustration in your head when she is storming, to truly hear her emotions and be curious and fully present. So there's quite a few things going on in there.

I suppose a couple of things we want to talk about. One is about being a wolf for those that maybe aren't aware of it, and defining a safety test would be the other thing. A safety test would usually be comments from someone in a relationship, such as your wife. It could be with your kids as well, or somebody else like an employee, where they say something to you or ask something of you. They're looking to see whether you're going to hold steady, not necessarily wanting something to be fixed or sorted.

It's often coming from a place of emotion and feminine energy, where they are trusting to see if you are strong enough if you are the banks of the river that they're flowing down that you can hold things steady, that you're not going to crumble, and that you can catch them if they fall.

Tim Matthews 3:15
Read my mind. I was just thinking that. I love that idea of, "Will you catch me if I fall?"

Okay, so I guess another piece on that, because I want to really make it clear for the guys, let's say it's with his wife. So let's elaborate a little bit more on the safety test piece as it relates to the wife.

Sometimes, what can happen when there has been a betrayal of trust we'll call it that and that betrayal of trust could have been one instance, or it could have been built over years. Typically, there can be some relational debt. What I mean by that is, if you imagine an emotional bank account, it can be significantly overdrawn after a betrayal of trust. Therefore, there can be relational debt that the guy is in.

As he begins to show up differently and make positive deposits into that emotional bank account, the wife can begin to test it because she wants to know whether or not she can trust this change. If she reacts or brings her emotion, to your point, which I think you said really well, can he hold steady, or is he going to blow up and react?

Whenever we call it falling into DM mode defend, excuse, explain, and react when a guy falls into DM mode in that moment, he literally loses connection with what's going on in front of him, which is kind of what this guy is talking about. Invariably, in that moment, he'll make it about him and not about what's going on for his wife.

So safety tests are a way of a woman being able to emotionally safeguard. Essentially, is it safe for me to let him in? If I take down my wall, can I trust him? Is it safe to take down my wall? Should I let him back in?

Safety tests can come in many different forms. I think being able to spot a safety test is one of the key skills one of the key tools, we'll call it that we give the guys in the Academy, in the Territory of Relationships. The Academy is the four-year curriculum we've just laid out for the men in The Brotherhood.

There's a masterclass in there on how to handle safety tests like an Aikido master. I love it.

It's one of the core skills. It's Alpha One, which is all about the guy coming in and really getting the foundations in place. He then moves to Alpha Two, which is him and his wife, bringing her along for the journey. But to get to Alpha Two, the guy has to first be, to your point, steady and grounded, which means he's got to be able to spot these safety tests.

Most guys don't have a clue they exist when they first come to the movement.

Stephen 6:47
I certainly didn't.

Tim Matthews 6:48
No, I didn't either years ago. Even now, it can be hard to spot them. It's a lot easier, but sometimes they're a little bit cheeky, a little bit disguised at times.

Stephen 7:01
I think sometimes you only realize afterwards.

Tim Matthews 7:03
Yes. Okay, so we've done the safety test piece. So, WOLF can you define WOLF?

Stephen 7:13
So a WOLF is someone who's wise, open, loving, and fierce.

Tim Matthews 7:18
Well said. I love that. What is WOLF spelled backwards?

Stephen 7:23
Flow? I had to think about that.

Tim Matthews 7:26
I love that. That's a big element of flow within a wolf. Okay, let's take it down to this piece then. How would you answer this? He's asking how he can be the wolf internally, not just externally, in the face of a safety test. How to go to the next level and quiet the frustration in your head while she is storming, to truly hear her emotions, be curious, and fully be present.

Stephen 7:59
There are a couple of things that spring to mind for me immediately with this. One of them is to say less. The tendency, when I've been in that kind of storm, is to start talking. Again, it's about not falling into DM mode defend, excuse, explain, react the kind of responses like, "Well, it's not my fault," or "It's because of this," or all of those words that start to come out when you begin excusing yourself.

Instead, stop, take a breath, pause for a second, and listen to what's being said. Absorb the energy that might be getting thrown at you and breathe. Sometimes you don't have to say anything, but certainly avoid falling into the pit of DEER mode. There's something about just staying steady.

At times, you may be able to see exactly where it's coming from, but even then, it's not about the words that are coming at you. They may not be the cause of the test; in fact, that may be part of the test itself. There's something about staying grounded and being fully present as well. If someone is giving you a safety test and you're sitting there on your phone, it's a time to put it down, look the person in the eye, and connect. Sometimes that alone can make a big difference.

Tim Matthews 9:38
It can. The big thing is DEER mode. Whenever a guy goes into DEER mode, ultimately, he's dropped into shame. Because DEER, as we've said defend, excuse, explain, react often stems from that place.

We were actually talking about this on the Relationship Office Hours call yesterday. One of the guys put a scenario in the chat, and I asked the group to give examples of validation in that situation. The scenario was that the wife felt stagnant and stuck, and she was worried the husband was outgrowing her. That was a real scenario.

So I said to the guys, "Give me some examples of validation." One of the guys said, "Well, you know, I'm doing this for us. I'm wanting to be a better father, a better husband, a better man." That’s defensive he's defending his position. Wrong answer.

Another guy said, "Well, what do you need? How can I make it better?" Again, wrong answer. She doesn't need you to solve the problem.

Ultimately, they didn’t know how to validate, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But because they are so used to solving problems, when presented with this situation, they saw it through the same lens that serves them so well in business but works terribly at home. She doesn't want to be solved; she wants to be seen and heard.

The internal narrative for many men when they fall into DEER mode is, "I am failing as a provider." Innately, we want to provide. We want our wife or partner to feel on top of the world. While we logically understand that a big part of that is on her, we still see it as our duty to help that along.

So whenever we feel like we are not achieving that, the provider within us can come out. If what is internalized is, "I am failing as a provider," or "What I'm doing isn't enough," that’s when shame kicks in. And when shame kicks in, it manifests as DEER mode either defensiveness, as in the example I just gave, or excuses, where circumstances are used to avoid the interaction.

Doug Holt 12:52
I want to buy you a gift. Look, if your marriage is struggling and let's be real, every marriage struggles at some point but yours is struggling where you've lost that love, admiration, and respect, I want to help you. I want to buy you a copy of the book that I wrote, A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It.

In this book, I've distilled over eight years of programs that we've developed at TPM to help men just like you save their marriages without talking about it. There's no fluff, no BS. It's an action plan that you can start using today to actually save your marriage and bring that love and respect back into your family and your home. You deserve it.

Look, all I ask is that you pay the postage. You pay the shipping, and I'll buy the book for you. That way, you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio and get your copy now.

Tim Matthews 13:45
Or they explain. That’s where they use words to overexplain why they’re doing what they did. Or they’ll react, and the reaction can come in the form of the four F’s. They’ll either freeze and not know what to do with it because they’ve dropped into shame. They’re going to fight, which means they’ll blow up and create an argument; fawn, which is a lie they’ll have a knee-jerk lie to try and make it not sound as bad; or they’ll go into flight, where they just want to escape the situation.

All of those elements of DEER are a result of them dropping into shame. So the first thing a guy needs to do in this moment to truly be able to embody the WOLF wise, open, loving, and fierce is to make sure he’s doing the work on himself to be in a grounded state.

Alpha Rise and Shine is one of the tools we give the guys in The Activation Method. That’s one of our flagship programs for married businessmen who want to fix their marriage without talking about it. Alpha Rise and Shine, Alpha Decompress, and emotionally filling his cup.

Now, let’s say his wife comes storming in and there’s a ton of emotion. The first thing I would recommend him to do is adjust his stance. Make sure he literally isn’t flat-footed. Soften his knees just a little bit, feel his feet on the ground, and pay attention to his breath. Breathe fully into his belly and widen his gaze.

The four facets of the WOLF wise, open, loving, and fierce all have a somatic expression. The wisdom piece can come in the openness. I won’t go through them all, but they each have a somatic expression. It’s actually what we took the guys through in Japan at the recent event on grounded masculine leadership. We had them step from a neutral stance into DEER, back to neutral, then into WOLF, and back to neutral, so they could play with the somatics of it.

When a man goes into DEER mode, he will typically have a clenched jaw, tight breathing, a furrowed brow, raised shoulders, shallow breath, and stiff legs. That’s why, for him to stay in WOLF, he should soften his knees, feel his feet on the floor, breathe into his belly, and maintain a soft, wide gaze. With DEER, he’ll often get tunnel vision, so widening the gaze is key.

Listen really listen. Your point about the pause is excellent. Don’t be quick to rush in and say something reactively. Validation is when you can put yourself in their shoes. That’s a little beyond empathy, but it is absolutely the golden ticket if you can do it.

What’s helped me do that is asking myself the question: What must this be like for her? I try to imagine what it must be like, and that’s when I’m able to validate: “Wow, thanks for telling me that. I had no idea you felt that way. That must be really lonely.” It can diffuse things so quickly.

Stephen 17:45
But you’re showing that you’re seeing them. That’s the key.

Tim Matthews 17:49
That’s the key. It’s about the joining, the partnering within the struggle. It’s the coming together, the turning toward in the struggle, right? At that point, you’re in it together, which diffuses things.

Whereas if you make it about you and drop into shame and go into DEER mode, you want to defend your position because, in that moment, you want to protect your self-image. In a lot of respects, this is a wonderful thing because, at the heart of DEER mode, there is a deep desire to care about the relationship. But the way it comes out is by trying to manage your image so you don’t look as bad to the other person, because ultimately, you don’t want them to leave.

So it comes from a good place it comes from the desire of caring but it doesn’t come across that way because it’s self-preservation. If she’s coming to you with a complaint, she wants to be seen in that moment. She wants to join, and that’s where emotional safety is created.

Stephen 18:57
For sure. I think taking that moment to pause also gives you time to breathe. One thing I’ve found is what you described about the somatic piece dropping the shoulders, soft knees, all of that. Just taking a big breath, and when you breathe out, your shoulders drop almost automatically. You can’t stay tensed up and ready to fight if you’ve taken a couple of big breaths.

Tim Matthews 19:25
I love that.

Stephen 19:25
That just buys you that little bit of time to just

Tim Matthews 19:31
I think remembering as well that it’s not about you. Her experience is her experience. I think a lot of guys are so fixated on wanting to be right, and it goes back to the self-preservation piece around self-image not wanting to be seen a certain way.

Now, there may be some accusations that are made that are factually incorrect, but you can still validate her experience without agreeing with the factually incorrect information. You might not want to address the incorrect fact in that moment. It might be better to bring it up later, depending on how heated the moment is.

I think that’s a misnomer that a lot of guys have. They think that if they validate, they’re agreeing with something they disagree with. That’s not the case. Validating is seeing the other person in their experience. It doesn’t mean you agree with the experience, but it means you see them in the experience.

Stephen 20:36
And that can be, for me, I find that they are in discomfort or some pain, or there’s something going on. Quite often, the thing that they come to you with as a safety test isn’t necessarily the root of what’s troubling them.

Tim Matthews 20:53
No, no. And this is where guys can get stuck in the trap of emotion versus logic. They get caught in a loop in an argument. He’s fighting for logic; she’s fighting for emotion. She’s fighting for it to be seen, and he’s getting stuck on the facts. They go around in circles and circles, and it just gets worse.

Stephen 21:14
I’ve seen it personally so many times where the thing that I get hit with as a safety test is not the real trouble. And the other thing often tied with that, not always, but often, is to not fall into the trap of thinking, “Oh, it’s something I’ve done wrong. I’ve got to fix it.”

Tim Matthews 21:36
I think that’s like coming back to the first point, right? Guys think they have to fix it in the moment, and they don’t. They just need to be willing to sit in the discomfort, because it can be uncomfortable for a lot of guys. It can feel a little bit incomplete because there’s no real outcome to it. There’s no real solution other than being seen, and for problem-solving guys, that can feel alien.

Stephen 22:01
It’s hard. I’m a problem-solving type of guy, and I love nothing better than solving a problem. So actually, just to leave it, that’s hard and takes a bit of getting used to. I know I could just sort it by going and doing something, but to not do that and just to sit, like you’re saying.

I read an analogy years ago: the other person is down at the bottom of a hole and can’t get out. The solution would be to find a ladder, put it down, and let them climb out. But seeing them and empathizing is getting down in the hole with them and saying, “It’s dark down here, and we’re going to get out,” and then you’re together.

Tim Matthews 22:42
I love that. I love that so well said. I’m just rereading the comment from this guy. I think we’ve addressed it all. But how to level up, not just being a wolf outwardly but inwardly we’ve spoken about that somatic piece. How to go to the next level and quiet the frustration we spoke about that. To truly hear her emotions and be curious and fully be present we spoke about the presence piece.

Ultimately, when somebody falls into DEER mode, presence collapses, so the opposite of that is presence. Curiosity we’ve spoken to that piece. Truly hearing her emotions is where validation is key because she may not be saying what her emotions are. But you can say things like, “I’ve got to imagine that must feel…” Just that one phrase, right? Because you’re not casting judgments on what her experience is. It’s not black and white, but you’re also seeing her in it.

“I’ve got to imagine that might make you feel angry or sad.” And you can apologize for her feeling that way: “I’m sorry you feel sad,” “I’m sorry you feel angry,” “I’m sorry you feel this way,” or “I’m sorry that my actions hurt you in this way.” There are ways in which you can apologize and take ownership as well, without feeling like a doormat just being real and connected in the moment.

Stephen 24:19
And sometimes, I think it’s important to remember that when you start to do this, you’re going to get it a bit wrong. The language you use doesn’t always necessarily land with your partner. I’ve had this myself. I’ll say something like that, and she’ll come back and say, “Well, that doesn’t sound like you. Who’s told you to say that?” Which I guess is another safety test in itself.

Tim Matthews 24:45
But you find it

Stephen 24:47
What I’m saying is you get the reps, and you find your own way. You find your own form of that language of seeing the person. The difference between saying “I think” and saying “I feel” that’s the whole thing for me as well. It’s about how other people are feeling rather than necessarily what they’re thinking.

Tim Matthews 25:06
So true. And if you get it wrong, you can come back to it: “Hey, let’s just replay that again. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean what I said,” or “I’m sorry for what I said,” or “I took a misstep. I’m really trying right now. This means so much to me. I really don’t want to get it wrong. Let’s just try that again.”

Stephen 25:28
Sometimes I preframe it with, “This maybe isn’t going to come out right, but this is where I’m trying to go.”

Tim Matthews 25:31
Exactly. I think a lot of guys think they have to wait until they are perfect.

Stephen 25:41
Oh, waiting for the perfect moment imperfect action.

Tim Matthews 25:47
Beautiful. Okay, so we’ve covered a lot. Great question it really is a great question. To wrap it up, we talked about what a safety test is. We’ve spoken about WOLF, what that looks like and feels like. DEER mode showing up and ultimately being a symptom of dropping into shame. We’ve then spoken about the somatics of what you can do to stay present. We’ve also discussed ways in which you can address the safety test. Anything else you want to add here, brother?

Stephen 26:22
I think of all of it, actually, the somatic piece is the biggest just taking that breath, getting present in your body, and remembering that your energy is your energy, and the other person’s energy is theirs. There’s also a tendency when someone is coming at you with a safety test to try to mirror their energy. No you stay steady in your own.

Tim Matthews 26:47
Ah, such a key point. Such a key point. So true. Well said. So guys, thank you for joining us on another episode of the TPM Show. If you want to find out anything about any of our programs whether it’s The Activation Method, The Ascension Blueprint, The Alpha Reset, or even The Academy just email vip@thepowerfulman.com, and one of the team will pick it up. Thank you for tuning in. We’ll see you next time on the TPM Show.