The Power of Two: Co-Creating a Meaningful Relationship

Episode #1181

When a married businessman successfully stabilizes a distant or troubled marriage, a new question arises: How do you transition from merely surviving the relationship to actively growing it? High-performing men often excel at perseverance and problem-solving, yet that same drive can lead them to take on total responsibility for fixing the marriage alone. Attempting to single-handedly force relational growth robs a wife of her own role in the process and leaves the husband exhausted, waiting for results that require two active participants.

The shift starts by getting clear on what you actually want to create together. Instead of continually measuring the marriage against past failures, resentment, or distance, look forward. What do you want the relationship to feel like? How do you want the two of you to communicate, connect, and operate as a couple? Programs such as The Activation Method help men address their own patterns so they can lead from a stronger place rather than trying to control their wife's response.

From there, clean up your side of the street. Honor the agreements you've made around the home and family. Meet your wife emotionally. Say what you genuinely feel and what you want without projecting your pain onto her or turning vulnerability into another strategy for getting a specific result. Deeper work such as The Alpha Reset can help a man address what's underneath his reactions so he can show up with greater authenticity and integrity.

Then comes the harder part: commit to the process without becoming attached to the outcome. Do the work because it reflects the husband and man you choose to be, not because you expect your wife to immediately reward the effort. Over time, consistency creates a body of proof and gives trust a chance to rebuild. It also gives you a clearer view of whether your wife is willing to step forward and build alongside you.

A marriage cannot be sustainably rebuilt by one person carrying all the weight. It requires two active co-pilots. When a husband stops trying to drag the relationship toward a predetermined outcome and instead takes full responsibility for his contribution, he creates space for his wife to take responsibility for hers. That is where stabilization can begin turning into genuine, shared growth.

Timestamp Chapters

 00:00 - Introduction and Episode Preview
01:28 - Trends and Observations from the TPM Inner Circle
02:11 - Step 1: Focusing on What You Want to Create (The Gain vs. The Gap)
03:00 - Step 2: Owning Your Side of the Street and Authentic Connection
04:06 - Step 3: Committing to the Process Over the Outcome
04:36 - Is Your Wife Willing to Co-Create the Relationship?
06:12 - What to Do When a Partner Says "I'm Done"
07:06 - Honoring Agreements and Rebuilding Credibility
09:12 - Expressing Desire and Vulnerability Without Demanding Results
09:48 - Doug Holt Mid-Roll: A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage
10:49 - Overcoming Relational Debt and Rebuilding Long-Term Trust
14:18 - Dynamic Leadership, Followership, and Shared Responsibility
17:45 - The Co-Pilot Analogy: Waking Up to Relationship Potential
20:56 - Understanding the Wheel of Consent in Partner Dynamics
24:15 - Key Takeaways: Stop Carrying the Entire Burden Alone
27:18 - Closing Remarks and TPM Program Information 

RELATED EPISODES

• Growing Together: The Art of Relationship Accountability
• The Art of Vision Setting: From Personal Goals to Relationship Growth
• Beyond Roommates: Rediscovering Your Partner as Your Soulmate

Frequently Asked Questions

What are the 3 steps to grow a relationship with my wife?

The 3 steps are: 1) Focus on what you want to create by staying in the gain rather than the gap, 2) Own your side of the street by honoring agreements, meeting her emotionally, and being vulnerable, and 3) Commit to the process rather than the outcome while evaluating if she is willing to co-create the relationship with you.

What does it mean to "own your side of the street" in a marriage?

Owning your side of the street means showing up fully with integrity regardless of your partner's immediate response. This includes following through on household and parenting agreements without needing reminders, validating her emotions, and expressing your own feelings honestly without blaming her.

Why should I stop trying to fix the marriage all by myself?

Attempting to fix the marriage alone puts excessive pressure on you and robs your wife of the opportunity to step into her own growth. A healthy relationship requires two active co-pilots. If you try to bulldoze the process, you prevent true co-creation and long-term connection.

Transcription

Tim Matthews 0:00
But the first thing is to stay focused on what it is you want to create.

Lawrence 0:03
Don't get dragged back to the gap. Stay in the gain.

Tim Matthews 0:07
Make sure he owns his side of the street.

Lawrence 0:10
Marathon, not a sprint.

Tim Matthews 0:12
Actions speak louder than words.

Lawrence 0:14
We want to lead in our relationships.

Tim Matthews 0:16
Committing to the process and not the outcome.

Lawrence 0:18
I think you need to clean that glass, and that's not something you can necessarily do on your own.

Tim Matthews 0:22
Because ultimately it takes two to make a relationship work. It's a co-pilot.

Lawrence 0:26
If she says, "No, I'm not in," that's it.

Tim Matthews 0:28
One of those pilots has fallen asleep at the wheel.

Tim Matthews 0:41
Hey, guys! So in this episode, you are gonna hear a little bit of a three-step process for somebody who wants to very much grow the relationship with their wife. So maybe you're in a position where you've stabilized things, but you want to build it and move on to the next phase. Now, if you're not in a position where you've stabilized things, this is still going to be relevant for you.

The three steps that I share are very applicable, and the lenses that you're going to look at things through are also very useful as well. So, thank you for tuning in. I hope that you get a lot out of it, and I will see you on the inside.

Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of the TPM Show. My name's Tim Matthews. I am your host, and I'm joined by Wildcard.

Lawrence 1:28
Greetings.

Tim Matthews 1:29
And the crowd goes wild. Okay, so I really like this setup. I prefer. I find myself kind of touching the desk the entire...

Lawrence 1:29
Ah, tactile.

Tim Matthews 1:29
Well, it's. I think it's got something to do with maybe a little bit ADHD. I was like, you know, fidget feel. It's a fidget. It's a fidget that's. It's got a texture, so, you know, it's, it's nice. What's so funny? Nothing.

Okay, so there has been a lot going on in the Inner Circle. That is primarily where I do most of my coaching with the men. I do also do some stuff with The Brotherhood guys, as you know, via the office hours, primarily. Which, if you're listening to this, make sure you attend those things.

And I was journaling a lot yesterday, reflecting just on what has been coming up for a lot of the men, be it within the Inner Circle or the guys I work with one-on-one, or whatever it may be. The messages I'm receiving, there's a lot of them, and there's, there's a theme really, and I'm always looking for ways in which, okay, what's the pattern here? Is there a pattern? How can I kind of simmer all of these different things down into a simple lens, really, through which to look at things? Is there, is there a teaching I can deliver?

And I'm just going to share with you what I kind of came up with. It's very rough. It's by no means polished, just some reflections. But let's see where it goes. A look into the...

Lawrence 1:29
Inner workings of the genius of Tim Matthews.

Tim Matthews 1:29
Wow, you're very kind. Nice. I wouldn't fascinate him. You may not think that in about five minutes.

So, I'll paint a picture just for the listeners. You know, who am I? Who am I thinking about when I'm about to share what I'm sharing? I'm thinking about a guy who's stuck, who's in a relationship, loves a woman, wants to make it work, has been trying to make it work for some time, but it's just not quite clicking. Okay, and what is the perspective that he can have that's going to be helpful for him as he tries to reconnect with her, but also doesn't lose himself in the process, right?

I think one of the big strengths of a lot of the men we work with is their ability to persevere. That's how they've built businesses. It's how they've achieved a lot of the things. Arguably, one of the greatest weaknesses is their ability to persevere. I think it can mean that they hold on to things and tolerate things for probably a little bit longer than, than is healthy. But, you know, that's up to them to decide.

So, what is this lens? Essentially, it's got three pieces, right? The first step is for the person to keep in mind what he wants to create with his wife. So the first thing is to stay focused on the gain, not to live in the gap, not to look at what's wrong, what's missing. Where do I want to go? What is it I want to create here? How do I want this relationship to function? How do I want to relate to her? How, how do I want to fit? Whatever goes into that. But the first thing is to stay focused on what it is you want to create.

The second step is to then own, make sure he owns his side of the street. So, in essence, so he knows he is showing up fully. What does that mean? He's honoring his agreements. He is meeting her emotionally, and he is real with what he is feeling and what he wants, so he's not holding back what he's feeling. He's not wearing a mask and pretending like he's okay if he isn't.

Equally, he's not projecting all of his pain onto her, but he's just been real with what he's feeling because it's in that realness that connection can take place. Right? For example, let's say they have been disconnected for quite some time. He may approach her and just, just say that, "Hey, I feel, I feel really disconnected from you right now."

It's not complaining about a lack of intimacy. It's not putting it on her. It's just opening up a door to say, "Hey, I'm feeling this way," and see where it leads. Maybe she starts asking questions. Maybe, maybe she takes it as criticism. At which point you can say, "Hey, do you think that's the best response right now? Like, you know, is there a better way we could handle this? I'm just sharing how I feel."

So, owning his side of the street, showing up fully. And again, I'll review, recap those: honoring his agreements, meeting her emotionally, so that's the, the connection piece, and sitting in those emotional spaces with her, and then being real with what he feels and what he wants.

Third step is committing to the process and not the outcome. So yes, he gets to remember what it is he wants to create with her. Then he falls into showing up fully, so his side of the street is clean, and in doing so, committing to the process and not the outcome.

Now, as he goes along the journey, he may want to ask himself at various times, "Can she give me what I want?" Maybe she can. Maybe she can't. She might be asking the same questions. You know, what can we realistically be for one another?

And if they are both working on the relationship, this is probably guys that are a little bit further on in the movement because they've done enough initial work. So the wife then sees their difference and wants to get involved and try and partner in fixing the relationship, right?

But if the guy is curious, hey, am I actually going to get what I want here? Then what he gets to fall back on in that moment is, does she want to give me the thing that I want?

Tim Matthews 1:29
So we've had that conversation, and she says, "Yes, I want the same thing as you," or, "No, I don't." And next to that is, is she putting in the work to make that happen?

So if she says, "Yes, I want that connection," because ultimately it takes two to make a relationship work. It's a co-pilot, right? And, you know, part of what gets the relationship into the position it's in for a lot of the guys that come to us is one of those pilots has fallen asleep at the wheel. Maybe both of them, right? But it's up to both of the individuals to co-create. Both of the individuals have co-created the relationship experience with what it is...

Lawrence 1:29
This far.

Tim Matthews 1:29
Thus far. When the guys come to us anyway, one way or another, they've both co-created it, consciously, unconsciously. They have both co-created it. So it's also going to take both of them to co-create a new one.

So this is where the guy can then ask himself: A, does she want to create the thing that we've said we want? And B, is she putting in the work to make that happen? And if she is, fantastic. If she isn't, you can get curious, right? What's going on? Does she not want to? Is she scared? Does she not think it'll work out? Like, what's going on there, right?

I think as you, as you, if you stick to this, it's not a formula by any means. It's just a series of kind of reflections, and you keep it in mind. Like, you know, what can we realistically be for one another? There's a likelihood that you might, I'd like to think, neither of you would then lose yourself in the process of trying to make this work.

And that might sound a little controversial. What do I mean by that? What I mean by that is just letting years and years and years and years and years pass by when realistically neither of you really ever wanted it to work in any way.

If you're taking this approach, then you're very much keeping in mind, well, actions speak louder than words. So, am I showing up fully, honoring agreements, meeting her emotionally, being real with what I feel and want? Am I committing to the process and not the outcome? Is she showing up fully? Is she committing to the process and the outcome?

And depending on the answer to that, it's going to dictate the journey and how long the journey lasts, and what form the journey takes, and all that kind of stuff, right?

Lawrence 1:29
So many questions.

Tim Matthews 11:12
I said it'd be a little bit messy, right? It's like I said. I'm just, I was just reflecting on where a lot of the guys are at.

Lawrence 11:18
Can I ask then, if she says, "No, I'm not in. That's it. I'm, you know, I'm done."

Tim Matthews 11:26
Okay.

Lawrence 11:27
Would you advise a man to walk away then, or is there? I mean, that's a very...

Tim Matthews 11:31
Personal choice. It is, isn't it? Right. I would probably, if it was me, I think I'd get curious. Okay. What do you mean by "you're done"? You don't want the relationship? You want time apart? You don't want this relationship? You want a different relationship? What kind of relationship do you want? Do you want that with me? Do you not want any relationship with anyone? Like, what? What do you mean by "I'm done"?

You know, if you knew you could have the kind of relationship you want, would you want it with me? So there's this great question. There's so much to that point, right?

Lawrence 12:12
I'm done. So what I'm hearing is, number one, present, live in the present. Don't get dragged back to the gap. Stay in the gain. Like, that's, that in itself is a, is a, is a perception shift of some magnitude.

Being able to turn around and say, actually, I'm going to put behind me, I'm going to, I'm going to release myself of the resentments that I felt or the unfairness or whatever, and step into a new frame and not get dragged back into guilt or shame of the last 10 years or, you know, what's happened, gone, gone before. That's a, that's a huge perspective shift and a really important one.

I think, I think that's a really good step, stage one for this. Then I heard you say authenticity about, you know, be yourself, be who you are.

Tim Matthews 13:06
Well, and also honor your agreements, right? Meet her emotionally, and then share what it is you feel and what you need or want. So that's the authenticity piece. But honoring the agreements is key as well, right?

Because some of those agreements may be like, "Hey, you've been a really shitty teammate the past five years. So I want you to... It'd mean a lot to me if you would help me more around the house." Well, what does that look like? Well, it means bum, bum, bum, bum. No problem, I can do that.

All right, it'd mean a lot if you would take more initiative with the kids. Okay, perfect. What does that mean to you? Well, it means this to me. I can do this. And then you do those things. You follow through. You honor the agreements without her having to remind you the entire time.

And it works both ways. You know, there may be asks that you have of her as well, and she gets to honor her agreements, and you shouldn't always have to remind her of her agreements. I get it. You know, every once in a while, people will forget, and reminders come in, and that's fine.

But having to try and, is that a boundary thing? Well, what we're talking about right now is making a relationship work, right? And it feels kind of shitty to have to constantly, I'll use the word "beg." It's not, it's not beg necessarily, but it's that kind of, it's within that ballpark. Beg somebody to do the thing that they've agreed to do for you.

Like when that's your wife begging, not begging, but constantly asking you to do the thing you've said you'd do, right? If you're not doing it, it's because it's not important to you. Vice versa, if she's not doing it, doing the thing she said she'd do for you, because it's not important to her. So why is that?

Lawrence 15:02
There could be lots of reasons why that's...

Tim Matthews 15:03
It could be. Should the agreement now may not work, whatever it may be. So don't make assumptions.

But in showing up fully, honoring your agreements. So showing up fully to ensure your side of the street is clean. That's the key piece here. I want to know my side of the street is clean so that I, as an individual, have done everything I can do to help the relationship.

So I'm gonna make sure that I know my agreements. I'm gonna meet her emotionally so I can validate. I can hidden motives, all that kind of stuff, right? Not just collect berries, but actually sit with her in some kind of emotional discomfort or whatever it may be. And then I'm going to be real with what it is I feel and what it is I want.

Doesn't mean you have to make a, like, a war cry or a declaration. "Hey, here's what I want and need." You can share it vulnerably. You can also share it in a way whereby you recognize the relationship may not be in a position to give it right now. Doesn't mean it's not there. It can, both can exist.

It can be a case of, "Hey, I feel, I feel disconnected from you right now. I know you don't feel ready. I'd love, I miss being intimate with you. I miss connecting with you in that way. I really, really want that with you. Not I want that. I want that with you. And I appreciate you might not be ready right now, and the relationship isn't in the right spot. But I miss it."

Lawrence 16:42
And that, that move, that, that ties in nicely to the next point, which I wrote down: marathon, not a sprint, and enjoy the process. I don't know if that's what you, commit to the process, not committing to the process, not the outcome. Realizing and recognizing, and this again, this was from my own journey, really, that, that there'd been 10 years of deactivation. There'd been 10 years of muddling through and being roommates and doing, you know, doing the thing we could, and some highs and some lows in there. But, you know, because I, I...

Doug Holt 17:15
Hey, guys, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure we can both agree that in order to fix something, you need to know what's broken, and not only need to know what's broken, but a step-by-step methodology on how you can fix it. That's the easiest way to do it, right? Otherwise, you're going to be toiling with things.

That's why I created a free training, a training that only shows you how you got to where you are, where your relationship is missing that love, respect, admiration, and even intimacy that it used to have, to how you get it back. How do you retain that? Where your wife's looking at you the same way she used to look at you when she said, "I do."

You know, I don't know about you, but for me, when my wife looks at me like I'm her man, that I feel like I can conquer the world, and I want that for you. Simply go over to thepowerfulman.com/scales. That's thepowerfulman.com/scales, and I have a free video training for you. You can just click play and see if this resonates for you. Now back to the podcast.

Lawrence 18:17
I connect with this, the avatar that you created. This, that, that guy in that relationship who wants it to work so badly, you know. And I was there, and I, and I remember thinking, you know, I'm not gonna, it's not gonna, I'm not gonna fix this overnight. This is a process that we've got to go through, and taking the time to do that and enjoying that process, and realizing that, you know, six months in, I was like, I've done all the work, you know. I'm doing all this work on myself. Why, you know, why isn't she opening up? Well, because there's been 10 years of distrust and, you know, lack of trust.

Tim Matthews 18:49
This, what I'm kind of sharing right now is probably more like step two. You know, like I said, it's, it's come off the back of conversations with men that have already done, started to clean up their side of the street. They've got the right habits in place, right? So their side of, their side of the street is either clean or increasingly cleaner than it was.

So they've started to put deposits in that emotional bank account. So the trust is getting rebuilt. So the wife is more open to taking down her walls and now co-creating a new relationship together.

Step one, she doesn't trust it, and why would she? You're coming out of relational debt where, to your point, you've been deactivated. She's got walls up. She's not going to be willing to say, "Okay, I'm going to give it a go." In her mind, she's like, "I've been asking to give it a go for years. I was asking you, asking you. You ignored it. You said, 'No, you were too busy. I'm done. I'm tired of asking.'"

And she probably stopped asking years ago. At which point, a few more years go by, and the guy picks it up, picks his head up, and is like, "Oh, what's going on here? Oh, this is different." And obviously, she's like, "Really, dude? I've been saying this." The guy's like, "I'm so attuned." That's right.

Lawrence 20:23
Look at me checking this out.

Tim Matthews 20:24
I've done that, you know. Of course we have because we realize at the moment of insight, like, oh, we've got it. And the older woman is, dude, I've been saying this to you for, like, months. You, you're late to the party. The party's finished, and you're just arriving. I love, I love the guys we work with, but, but...

So I think this is more kind of step two because, again, it goes to that first point. Focus on what it is you want to create, right? Living the gap, not the gain. Step two is showing up fully, so making sure your side of the street is clean, right? The agreements piece, the meeting her emotionally piece, the essentially being real and vulnerable. And the third piece was commit to the process, not the outcome.

Now, that's his bit, right? The bit for, for her then is, and it's not, doesn't stop here, but does she want to create the thing that I've said or give me the thing that I said I would want? Does she want to do that? Yes or no? And there's, there's more to that piece, as you know.

And then if she says, is she taking the action to make that happen, right? And that's where you shouldn't want to. If she says she wants to provide that thing, just like you want to provide the thing, you want to co-create this third entity of the relationship. Well, if she says she wants that thing, then is she doing the work, right? Is she, whatever that might look like?

It could, could look like a lot of different things. Doesn't necessarily need to be with a therapist or anything. Anyone, like, it could be. It depends. What's, what's in her way? Depends what it is she said she's, she wants to create with you, right?

Lawrence 22:13
That's a really interesting point because it ties into something I was thinking about earlier, which is about leadership. We want to lead in our relationships. We're looking to take a leadership role in the relationship, to be activated, to, to lead her into something that you co-create together.

But it's really, it's not possible to lead somebody unless you've got followers, and, and if she wants to be a follower...

Tim Matthews 22:37
Well, she has to be a leader in her own right as well.

Lawrence 22:39
Absolutely, she's got to lead her life and lead her journey, but she's also got to respond to your leadership. If you're, if you're going to take the initiative to, you know, to create things or, or work with her to create things, then maybe it is co-leadership, maybe it is co-creation.

Tim Matthews 22:55
Or maybe co-pilot thing, isn't it? But the guy can still initiate. To your point, the leading.

Lawrence 23:00
And if you're going to lead, then there is, there's leadership, but there's also followership. There is, you know, being willing and, and having the trust built enough to, to, to allow somebody to move into that, that following.

Tim Matthews 23:14
But what about the guy following her lead at times?

Lawrence 23:17
Absolutely.

Tim Matthews 23:17
Because that, that's also got to be at play. You know, because if she's going to take a risk in trying to do whatever it is to, you know, meet whatever thing you've said you want, then that means you're also, in that moment, at times going to have, probably have to submit to her leadership so that she builds in her confidence in her ability to be able to bring something to the relationship as well.

Lawrence 23:40
But even the word "submit." So you could choose to follow, or you could submit to leadership. There's two, the same thing, but there's two different ways of thinking about it. And I think that's, you know, if your perception is, "I'm going to submit to, to, to what she's telling, telling me to do," or what, you know, how her choices, then it feels a little bit, say that. No, I know. But if we, you know, if you actively choose to follow because, you know, that's part of the, the dynamic you're creating, then that's, you know, that's really important to do that as well. And, and that provides, that produces engagement and connection because you're both, you know, doing your thing.

Tim Matthews 24:18
Think of it like she might say, "Hey, I'd love to watch this show with you. I'd love to do this thing with you. I'd love to go there with you." How, what do you do in that moment, right? She, she might just be saying that, and then you go organize it.

Ah, but I think some guys, I think it can be easy to overlook those moments and, like, "Oh, yeah, that'd be cool. Oh, yeah." But she might be taking a big risk in that moment, right? To being vulnerable and saying, "Hey, I'd really love to do this thing with you." Remember, quality time is one of them for most women, one of the key love languages. So she's basically in that moment asking for her love language to be met.

That's probably as risky for her as the guy saying, "Hey, I feel disconnected from you right now. I'd love to be intimate with you." That, which I've not, I've never looked at it this way, but I think that's really fascinating that they both probably carry equal risk.

So how the individuals in the relationship respond to one another in those moments, in those moments of vulnerability, is going to determine the trajectory of how the relationship then evolves. Because if it gets missed, and let's just say the guy just brushes over it, or the woman brushes over it, it's almost like a, ah...

Tim Matthews 25:48
Kind of takes a little bit of the wind out of the sails. Ah, whereas if there's presence and attunement, and the guy, I'll use, picks up on it and says, "Oh, great, fantastic! When would you want to go? Should we go this weekend? Should we do it now? Should we do it? What would that look like? Tell me more." Whatever, right? It opens it up.

So in that moment, in theory, the guy would be submitting, quote unquote, to her leadership because she is initiating a conversation and an idea. But really, he's just, this is where, like, the whole idea of the dynamic in a relationship is always evol... It's always, it's always evolving. It's always, should be anyway. And in a healthy relationship, it's always going to be evolving.

The polarity is always going to be flowing and moving and shifting and this and that as both people co-create the relationship. And it goes back to that idea of being co-pilots.

Let's say, you know, Big John, one of the, the guys in the movement, incredible guy, is a pilot, flies. Well, it's a matter where he flies, flies big planes. He has a co-pilot. If they were flying over the Atlantic, you wouldn't want one of the pilots to fall asleep at the wheel. Now, you might argue, well, they've got technology and navigation or something. Just go with it, okay?

The idea is, you know, you both want to be aware. You both want to be awake, tuned in, noticing what's going on because you are navigating this thing to the destination that you're wanting to get to, and it takes both people to be the co-pilots of the plane. But if one person falls asleep, then one person is left steering the wheel, so to speak, and there's a void. It's no longer a corporation.

Lawrence 27:45
It's a lot of responsibility on that person.

Tim Matthews 27:47
Well, yeah, and oftentimes I'd probably say that's how the women often feel when the guys come into The Activation Method. Because they would argue, I'm guessing, and, well, I know because I've spoken to a lot of them, they'd never, they don't use these words, but they would argue that the guy has fallen asleep at the wheel.

Could be how he's not engaging with the kids. Could be how he's not present when he comes home. Could be how he's overworked. Could be how, in terms of the relationship, he's fallen asleep at the wheel.

So then he starts to wake up, like, "Oh, shit, I need to co-pilot this thing." At which point she's falling asleep at the wheel. "Fuck it! I can't be bothered. I'm tired of flying this thing on my own. You can take your turn now."

But as he starts to navigate the journey well and consistently, she starts to wake up again. "Okay, I think I can get on board with this." So she starts to take back some of the reins as well, and that's where the co-piloting comes in.

Lawrence 28:48
No, that's brilliant. Well, do you know what came up for me while you were talking there was, you heard the Wheel of Consent, Betty Martin?

Tim Matthews 28:56
I have not.

Lawrence 28:57
So Betty Martin, back in the '60s, lady did a, the, the Wheel of Consent. So we talk about consent in terms of, you know, sexual activities and things like that, and the consent being important and all, and all those things. And she created a Wheel of Consent.

And we were, because you were talking about, you know, whether, whether you're leading by following, whether you're, if she's, if it's her leadership and you're submitting to her leadership. And this Wheel of Consent, I think, is really helpful because it gives four things: it's giving, receiving, accepting, and allowing.

And so, if you're in the role of the giver, you're giving something to somebody. So, in terms of, like, a relationship you may be having with, with a sexual partner, you'd say, "I'd like to give you a massage." You know, "I'd like to," you know, and, and because I'm giving that to you because I think you'll like that.

You know, whereas receiving, you're having something done to you for your pleasure. Accepting something is when somebody wants to do something for you, and you're accepting it. So you're doing it because they want, they want it, and you're, or sorry, you're allowing them because they want it.

So there's, there's different things here. The giving and receiving is, you know, it's very much kind of, "I want to give this to you because I think you'll like it." The receiving is, "I want you to, you know, I want to give this to because I think I'll like it." And then the allowing and accepting is, is the, the person who likes it is different.

So, the, the reason why it came up for me in my mind was because that kind of allowing and accepting, you can allow somebody to lead and accept their leadership and still be in a, in a dominant leadership position. You can, you don't, it's not, it's not about submission and dominance. It's about holding the frame.

Whether you're, you know, giving somebody something for their pleasure or whether you're giving something, somebody, something to somebody for your pleasure. You know, so your wife might want to give you a blowjob, right? And she wants to give you a blowjob because you enjoy blowjobs. It may be.

Tim Matthews 31:11
Some other guys can relate.

Lawrence 31:12
I'm sure no one can relate. But it may be that actually she really likes giving blowjobs. That's something she really enjoys doing. You know, so the Wheel of Consent is about, is about working out what, or thinking about what the motivation or what the perception is behind the act, and, and not necessarily thinking of it in black and white as, you know, one person has to lead, one, one person has to follow, but more you're co-creating this, and you're moving between these. I'm accepting this. I'm accepting.

Tim Matthews 31:45
Think about the peace sign, the whole yin and yang.

Lawrence 31:47
Yeah, yeah, very much working together.

Tim Matthews 31:49
Yeah, there's an intertwinement going.

Lawrence 31:51
So you don't have to necessarily be in a, in a, a leadership role and always taking on that, this. You're co-creating it with her, and that, and, and you can, you know, do that together. Yeah, fall in and out of these roles.

Tim Matthews 32:05
So let's wrap this one up. Three, three takeaways for you.

Lawrence 32:15
I think for me, the importance of living in the gain and not the gap. That, the book The Gap and the Gain, was a game changer for me. And I think if I, if I'm looking at the same kind of guy you're looking at there, with your, the view of somebody who is, has been in the movement a while, is, really wants to reconnect with their wife, I think it's a real piece of work to be able to lay to rest your resentments or your guilt or shame for what went before.

I think you need to clean that glass, and that's not something you can necessarily do on your own. But I think it's something you can work with your partner. You know, the Clean Slate Method kind of thing. But the more, you know, the next stage on from the Clean Slate Method is, is making that sure that glass is clean.

So that's the first one, I think, living in the gain. And I think enjoying the journey, the process, I think, are my, those are my two big takeaways. That, that is, you know, you've got to really, you've got to really decide what you want, and you've got to enjoy the process of taking it.

And I suppose the third one is that, you know, it's not just you on your own. Yeah, that's mine. This is the, you know, this is that on her as well.

Tim Matthews 33:33
Yeah, that's mine. That's mine. It's a co-creation. I think the men can sometimes take too much ownership, and I think it comes from a really good place. I've always wanted to be better. I've always wanted to be accountable. I've always wanted to take ownership. I've always wanted to look at what they can do better. Maybe there's just a lot of ways I can improve. I always seem to find them in myself. And when is enough enough? You know.

Well, so I think there's a co-creation that gets to take place, and I think there's a robbing of the potential of the relationship and the other person if you are constantly putting so much pressure on yourself to be the one that takes us to the next level. It takes two. It takes two to, to, to grow a relationship, to, to repair and stabilize.

You know, the guy can very much lead most of that, but to really grow the relationship, it takes two. And don't rob your wife of the opportunity of her own growth by what she gets to step into if you want to create something together.

And equally, don't bulldoze into a conversation with her. You know, you got to be, how you approach that conversation is important. You know, men go about their journeys very different to how a woman had go about her journey, typically anyway. So I think it's important. You got to be mindful and intentional about how you approach that piece with her.

But you can't put it all on yourself. You can't grow a relationship being the only one trying to drive it and put something in.

Lawrence 35:18
I think the timing piece was also really important. You mentioned that briefly, but that, you know, he's trying, he's trying, she's not, she's gone to sleep, and then one wakes up, the other one goes to sleep.

And I think, you know, you mix in the menopause with that, you mix in stages of life, you mix in illnesses and things like that, and you can miss each other. You can, you can spend, spend 10, 15, 20 years, 30 years in my case, missing each other because one's awake and the other one's asleep.

And I think it's, it's about when, when you talk about co-creating, it's about waking, but both being awake at the same time doing that.

Tim Matthews 35:49
For sure. Yeah. But sometimes it takes the other one to turn around and shake the other one awake, or just tap them on the shoulder. "Hey, wake up! Hey, hey, hey."

But, yeah, I'd love to see. I think the guys, like I said, can take too much responsibility to the point where it's robbing the relationship of its potential. Be akin to, "Hey, I'm going to build this business, and I'm going to do it all on my own." Yeah, it's just, you know, you need a team. Takes more than just you.

So anyway, guys, thanks again for joining us on another episode of the TPM Show. If you want to find out more about what we do here, be it The Activation Method, the Inner Circle, The Brotherhood, the events that we do, The Alpha Reset, I could go on and on. If you've looked at the website, you'll see there's a lot of things that we do.

But if you want to find out more, just email into VIP. That's veryimportantperson@thepowerfulman.com, and we'll see you next time on the TPM Show.