From Escalation to Communication: Managing Tough Talks

Episode #1192

Many men experience a distinct feeling in the pit of their stomach when they know a difficult conversation is unavoidable. Whether dealing with a business associate, a friend, or a spouse, discovering dishonesty or broken agreements naturally triggers an impulse to confront the issue head-on. High-performing leaders often default to immediate confrontation, demanding truth and enforcing accountability the moment a problem escalates. However, relying exclusively on an aggressive approach can exacerbate tension, particularly when the other person is already navigating personal distress, medical issues, or emotional fatigue.

In this conversation, Doug Holt and Christopher Hansen discuss how to navigate high-stakes communication escalations without resorting to unnecessary confrontation. Doug shares a real-time dilemma involving missed calls, dishonesty, and broken boundaries between two close contacts, illustrating how his own communication style evolved from immediate confrontation to a nuanced, delicate approach. Rather than bringing a hammer to every situation, leaders must evaluate whether immediate confrontation serves the long-term relationship or merely satisfies an egoic desire to prove a point.

The discussion outlines practical principles for handling sensitive conversations:

• Connection First: Prioritizing emotional connection and safety before addressing surface-level mistakes or dishonest behaviors.
• Understanding the Root Cause of Dishonesty: Recognizing that people often shade the truth out of fear of punishment, overwhelmed capacity, or self-protection rather than malice.
• Delicate Accountability: Holding boundaries and clearing issues in a way that respects a partner's or friend's current capacity, such as during perimenopause, medical challenges, or personal grief.
• Building Emotional Safety: Creating an environment where others feel secure enough to confess mistakes voluntarily rather than hiding out of fear.

Approaching tough talks with connection rather than punishment transforms potential conflicts into opportunities for deeper trust. By learning framework principles like holding space for the woman in your life and applying structured tools such as a Clean Conversation, men can resolve escalations gracefully, protect important relationships, and maintain grounded leadership across all areas of life.

Timestamp Chapters

 00:00 - Introduction: The Pit in Your Stomach Before Tough Conversations
01:00 - Real-Time Escalation: Missed Calls, Broken Boundaries, and Dishonesty
03:15 - Self-Accountability vs. Compassion When Someone Is Struggling
04:34 - Evolution of Communication: Why a Hammer Isn't Always Needed
06:05 - Letting Water Under the Bridge vs. Dogmatic Confrontation
08:00 - Applying Delicate Communication to Marriage and Health Challenges
09:05 - Connection First: Why People Lie Out of Fear of Punishment
10:00 - Doug Holt Mid-Roll: A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage
11:15 - A Hypothetical Dilemma: Handling Dishonesty with Close Friends
14:22 - Navigating Perimenopause and Health Issues in Marriage
16:53 - Creating Safe Spaces and Reassuring Unconditional Support
17:45 - Seeking Connection Over Punishment and Closing Thoughts 

RELATED EPISODES

•  How to Deal With Difficult Conversations 
•  From Conflict to Connection: Mastering the Art of Healthy Disagreements in Marriage 
•  Love’s Battlefield: Navigating Disagreements Without Losing Connection 
•  Growing Together: The Art of Relationship Accountability 

Frequently Asked Questions

Why is a "connection first" approach effective in tough conversations?
Leading with connection creates emotional safety, lowering defensiveness and allowing the other person to engage honestly. When you address difficult issues after establishing connection, the conversation focuses on resolution and mutual trust rather than fault-finding or punishment.

Why do people lie in relationships even about small things?
People often shade the truth or lie out of a fear of being punished, criticized, or rejected. When an environment lacks emotional safety, individuals default to self-protection or avoidance rather than risk an aggressive confrontation.

How should a husband handle communication when his wife is going through perimenopause or health challenges?
A husband should prioritize connection, exercise extra patience, and adjust his delivery without abandoning essential relationship standards. Navigating these delicate seasons with empathy and structured support transforms potential friction into an opportunity for deeper partnership.

How can I tell if a situation requires immediate confrontation or patient grace?
Consider whether immediate confrontation serves the long-term relationship or merely satisfies an egoic desire to be right. If the other person is in a delicate state or experiencing heavy personal trials, leading with grace and building safety allows the issue to be addressed constructively when capacity returns.

Transcription

Doug Holt 0:00

The highest level of escalation is call me.

Christopher Hansen 0:03

It touches on self-accountability.

Doug Holt 0:06

They said no, and it appears the answer is yes.

Christopher Hansen 0:10

What do they need? What do they need from me?

Doug Holt 0:12

Normally, this would be relatively easy for me.

Christopher Hansen 0:16

What's the boundary in the relationship?

Doug Holt 0:18

A hammer isn't needed in every situation.

Christopher Hansen 0:21

It's been nothing but an opportunity for connection with us.

Doug Holt 0:24

Do I even bring it up?

Christopher Hansen 0:26

Nobody really wants to be punished.

Doug Holt 0:40

Do you know that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you have to have a tough conversation with someone, and you know it's not going to go well, but it just needs to happen? That's what we're going to talk about today on the TPM Show. Chris, thanks for sticking around, trying to have another conversation.

Christopher Hansen 0:57

How difficult is this conversation going to be?

Doug Holt 0:59

Well, I want to talk to you. You're like, "Oh crap!"

To give the guys listening to this some background, in between takes, I grabbed my phone, which I shouldn't do, and I have a series of escalations of communication that our team and other people use to get to me. The highest level of escalation is call me, and I had missed calls. The second one below that is shoot me a text message.

I immediately had phone calls, which is the highest level of escalation. I'm like, "Oh, great." So I got to check my text messages and voicemails to see what they're

The next one, essentially, somebody close to me, it appears, has been lying to me. The interesting thing is, it's something I would have thought is extremely insignificant. Wouldn't have bothered me to know. Like, "Oh yeah, whatever. Go just fix the thing." It doesn't really have to deal with me, so it's not like anybody did anything to me, my property, my family, or anything.

But I asked somebody a question. They said no, and it appears the answer is yes. Now I'm stuck in the middle between two parties, one person upset at the other person.

Person A, I talked to. I said, "Did you do this thing?"

They said, "No."

"Great."

And I go, "Because I think I have some evidence that that thing happened. I'm gonna have to figure it out, and I'm gonna get mad at Person B, probably."

Person B just reached out and said, "I need to talk to Person A because they did this, this, this, and here are the photos. I want to talk to you before I go confront Person A."

Christopher Hansen 2:50

Got you.

Doug Holt 2:51

Now Person A appears to be I know I'm using a lot of A's and B's not only lying to me, but also disrespected Person B. These are people I'm very close to, and now I'm going to be in a position where certainly I'm going to have to confront Person A for just lying to me.

Christopher Hansen 3:11

Sure.

Doug Holt 3:12

B and A can figure out their own stuff.

Christopher Hansen 3:14

Right.

Doug Holt 3:15

But I'm tied between the two of them anyway.

So here's the crux of it. Normally, this would be relatively easy for me, but Person A is going through a ton of challenges, and part of their challenge is they're disoriented sometimes. They're going through a dark, dark period of their life.

I think the challenge I'm facing, which I think will help some of the guys, that's why we're bringing it up, is: Do I even bring it up to Person A that I know, or do I let it just be water under the bridge and let the two of them figure it out?

Christopher Hansen 3:56

It's an interesting one because it touches on self-accountability. What is the line of self-accountability when somebody's in a deep, dark, heavy space and they're dealing with a lot of things?

It's like, okay, what do they need? What do they need from me? What's the boundary in the relationship? That's going to vary, I'm sure, whether it's family, whether it's friend, whether it's acquaintance, whatever it may be.

What are your thoughts on this?

Doug Holt 4:34

I think I'm going through an evolution on this, to be honest.

The old me, being the me of a month ago, would just hit this straight on. Boom, knock on the door. "Hey, we need to talk. I asked you a question. You said no. It appears it's yes. Why did you lie?" I would just hit it head-on.

I'm realizing that a hammer isn't needed in every situation. I've gotten almost dogmatic in my desire to clean things up and have the truth be out, and also for the other person to know I know. I just don't want to hide.

But I'm noticing in my sphere of influence that there are other people around me who are more delicate, and not all situations need to be called out. I can just let it go.

My wife and I had a friend who was going to help us move when we moved into Sisters. It was a real estate agent, actually, and she's like, "You buy your house. I'm going to help you move. We're going to paint it this color." She was in.

The day of the move showed up. She showed up for about 30 minutes and then left. There were all these promises that she made, and she made good money because she was our real estate agent, but she was also a friend. Then she just completely vanished. We never heard from her again.

It was a feeling of being lied to, abandoned. Come to find out a couple years later, she had done this to almost everybody in that friend group. She just kind of disappeared.

Well, she's since then changed careers, and my wife ran into her and sees her once, twice a week now. I go, "How is it?"

She goes, "It's like we've always been friends. Nothing got brought up."

"What?"

My wife said, "It's just been so much time that it's just water under the bridge."

But I can't let it go. I'm using that example of how dogmatic I had become over the years of really just wanting to clean things up in my relationships.

Now I have somebody who's very delicate. My words, my view, and A seemingly did something to Person B. Just let those two work it out and stay out of it, or confront Person A. I'm leaning towards not the need of confrontation because A and B are going to have their stuff regardless. It just has to be worked out.

Christopher Hansen 7:07

Yeah.

Doug Holt 7:08

And just let A go through their healing process.

Christopher Hansen 7:12

I think if somebody's in a delicate situation, there's always space to have conversations, hold somebody accountable, especially if it's important to you that you're not being lied to. But I think that doesn't need to be the priority in the relationship either.

Doug Holt 7:34

Yep.

Christopher Hansen 7:34

It's like, okay, how can I show up here knowing that this is what's going on? Make sure that this person is taken care of. Their needs are kind of the priority in the relationship at the moment. There's always space to address things down the road if they need to be addressed.

Doug Holt 7:56

That's what's coming up for me.

When I'm thinking about this, I'm also relating this to so many of the men who share with me when their wives are going through a hard time, perimenopause, menopause, or maybe it's a surgery or cancer. We have men whose wives go through all these things, or hospitalizations.

I would tell them the same thing: "Hey, does this really matter?" When I look at it, at the end of the day, the answer is no.

Do I want to be lied to? No. Trust is my highest tier for me, and it's hard for me personally, Chris, to go back. Like this real estate agent seven years ago, I'm still like, "Uh-huh. I remember."

That's just an interesting part of who I am and me myself. What I would tell the guys to do is, "Hey, how could you create an environment where that person feels so safe that they can come to you and say whatever needs to be said, versus just trying to clear things up with them?"

Christopher Hansen 9:05

For sure. Connection first. Connection first.

If we're talking about a relationship, like my marriage or partnership, for me, it's always connection first. With my kids, I'll overreact with my kids if they lie to me. That's a trigger for me if my kids lie to me. But even with that, I try really hard to temper myself. Connection first.

Doug Holt 9:40

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Christopher Hansen 10:33

And then figure out why.

Usually, if my kids lied I mean, my daughter is the one that has a tendency to just, "Yep," and off she goes it's either from a place of her priority in that moment is much higher. She wants to go play. Or she feels like she's going to get punished.

If somebody feels like they're going to get punished, and they're lying from that place, that's a relationship thing. That's a connection piece. If somebody feels like they're going to be punished, there's something in connection there that needs to be addressed.

I always try to go from that place first.

Doug Holt 11:15

I like that.

This isn't my wife, so let me give a hypothetical. One of our advisors, Wesley, is a really close friend of yours as well, which I love.

Imagine Wesley was going through a horrible situation medically, mentally, just really in a bad place. You, Kristen, and the kids go to Hawaii for a week vacation, and you come back, and Wesley's staying at your place or nearby or whatever. You come back and notice there's a dent in your truck.

You're like, "Wesley, did you take the truck?"

He goes, "No, I didn't."

"Sure?"

"No, didn't touch the truck."

Then you're like, "Okay."

Then your neighbor comes by and goes, "Hey, your friend Wesley hit my I don't know garden gnome." Making this all up as a hypothetical. They're big garden gnomes. Your neighbor has big ones. "Hit my garden gnome, and I want to talk to you before I go talk to Wesley."

That's kind of the situation, except it's not Wesley. Wesley, I love you, man. Except for the garden gnomes.

Christopher Hansen 12:32

That's one of the I mean, you hit on a relationship for me, and there's a few people that exist in this space for me that I'm immediately going to the place of, "Something serious has happened."

If this person has lied to me about something like this, then there's definitely something going on. That's connection first for me. I don't give a shit about my truck. I give a shit about Wesley.

Doug Holt 13:04

One hundred percent. But do you confront Wesley and say, "Hey, man, why'd you lie to me?" Or do you go, "You know what? Clearly he's got something going on that he needs to work out, and I'm gonna let him talk to my next-door neighbor Josh with the gnomes."

Christopher Hansen 13:21

No, I would address that with Wesley because Wesley knows that he lied to me, and that's gonna, to me, being unresolved, at least unacknowledged, is something that is gonna make it harder for him because he's gonna carry there's gonna be weirdness in the dynamic.

I would address that, and I wouldn't be mad about it with Wes at all. Just say, "Hey, this thing happened. The neighbor said this. Look, I know you told me this. It's whatever, bro. I love you. I want to talk about what's going on here."

It's whatever. Water under the bridge. I want to know what's up with you. That's how I would address that in that situation.

Doug Holt 14:02

Cool. Would you buy the gnome?

Christopher Hansen 14:03

Probably. I mean

Doug Holt 14:08

I'm kidding.

Christopher Hansen 14:10

Just to maintain the relationship with my neighbor, I would make sure that's taken care of, and I wouldn't want Wesley to have to deal with that in his current situation because there's clearly something happening in that dynamic.

Doug Holt 14:22

Awesome, man. I appreciate that.

I think a lot of guys are going through this right now in their marriages. I'm not, but a lot of men will come to me and talk to me about, again, seemingly perimenopause is the big one for a lot of guys, or postmenopausal, or their wives have got medical issues as they've entered their 40s or 50s that have come up for them.

They feel as if they can't, or they use that as an excuse not to have conversations that matter with their partner or bring up things. Because, "Well, she's in perimenopause," or, "Well, she's doing this," or, "Well, she's got this medical thing," or, "Well, her dad died."

Christopher Hansen 15:10

Cool. I could talk about that.

My wife is in perimenopause. Over the last year, my wife has had medical issues. Over the past year, my wife has gone no contact with her parents and is currently dealing with some medical-type things that she's working through.

I'm experiencing all of that at the exact same time. It's been nothing but an opportunity for connection with us.

Again, I'm going to take all of those things into consideration before I act. But if there's something that I want to address with my wife, again, connection first.

I'm going to step into that dynamic, make sure that for her, whatever's going on for her in that moment, we talk about. We get into that space of connection where we can have an open, honest conversation.

My experience is once she feels open with me, when she feels connected to me, I can certainly bring up, like, "Hey, I know this stuff is going on right now, and also I want to make sure that we're handling this over here. This thing happened," or, "Hey, we still have these priorities, and the ball is getting dropped over here. If you need my support with it, cool."

Whatever it may be, I'll handle it in a more delicate way, knowing that these other things are happening. But I'm not going to leave those things unaddressed.

Doug Holt 16:50

Yeah.

Christopher Hansen 16:51

Yeah.

Doug Holt 16:52

That's where I'm thinking.

Christopher Hansen 16:53

Yep.

Doug Holt 16:55

The way I think I'm going to approach this one, Chris, for me, is creating that safe space, giving Person B the context on how they can address it in a manner that gets the issue resolved for them, and then reassuring the other person that they can come to me with anything, regardless of the situation.

Christopher Hansen 17:20

I think that's really it. At the end of the day, people make mistakes, man. We talk about marriage stuff. We talk about relationships. None of us know. We're all trying to figure

Doug Holt 17:31

It out. Yep.

Christopher Hansen 17:32

Right. No one here is perfect.

At the end of the day, nobody really wants to be punished. Most of the time, when things happen that are seemingly negative, it is seeking connection.

Even kids that misbehave, most of the time, that's because they're looking for attention. They're looking for connection. There's something dysregulated there that they're lashing out in some way.

It's just kind of how I approach it.

Doug Holt 18:10

I love it, man. I appreciate that. It was funny that we decided to jump right on this as I got that text message and work it out on a podcast. Hope the guys got something from it as well.

Christopher Hansen 18:18

Yeah.

Doug Holt 18:19

Appreciate it. Thank you.

Christopher Hansen 18:20

Of course. Thank you, Doug.

Doug Holt 18:22

Gentlemen, if you got anything from that, if you're dealing with a difficult situation, a difficult conversation, like I said, I used to hit it just head-on like a big train. Not always, but in a delicate way, maybe a velvet glove around the hammer, if you will.

What I want you to take into consideration is: How are you going to have that conversation? How can you frame the conversation you're about to have? And to Chris's point, how can you go first to seek connection and then address whatever needs to be addressed?

Because at the end of the day, it's relationships. It's relationships with people we care about, and you, like me, care about a lot of people. And you're a great person, a kind person, I'm sure. Otherwise, you wouldn't be listening to a show like this.

When you do it, get the skills, have the conversation, and we'll see you next time on the TPM Show.