Episode #1124
A lot of men think things will get better once the kids leave the house. More time, less stress, a chance to reconnect.
But for many couples, the opposite happens.
In this episode, we talk about what really goes on when you hit the empty nest stage and why so many marriages quietly fall apart right at this point. Not because of one big moment, but because of years of disconnection that finally catch up.
You’ll hear what’s actually happening from a woman’s point of view, especially when she’s been holding the family together for years. We get into why some women are already planning their exit long before the kids leave, and why a lot of men are caught completely off guard when it happens.
We also break down what you can do differently. How to lead your marriage through this transition instead of reacting to it. Why emotional safety matters more than most guys realize, and how your day-to-day energy, consistency, and presence shape the connection in your relationship.
This is really about being proactive. Not waiting until things are falling apart, but using this stage as a reset. A chance to rebuild connection, create a new version of your marriage, and actually enjoy this next phase of life together.
If your kids are close to leaving, already gone, or you just don’t want to end up in that situation, this will give you a clear way to think about what to do next.
If you want help figuring out where your marriage actually stands and what to focus on next, go get the free training here:
https://fixmarriage.thepowerfulman.com/scales
It’ll walk you through what’s working, what’s not, and how to start rebuilding connection in a simple, practical way.
Hungry for more?
Head over to our BONUS page for special access to some of the deeper tactics and techniques we’ve developed at The Powerful Man.
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Transcription
Doug Holt 0:00
Keep the family together while the kids are still there.
Erin Holt 0:02
It gets to be as easy or as hard as you make it. You can create time for your marriage again.
Doug Holt 0:07
As soon as the kids leave, I'm out of here.
Erin Holt 0:09
It's basically just a ticking time bomb.
Doug Holt 0:11
She felt her purpose was taking care of the children, and now that the children were gone, what's my purpose?
Erin Holt 0:17
When she has a space where she can share her feelings, she can work through them.
Doug Holt 0:21
It's unsafe. It's uncertain. She's just going to go out and find a real man.
Erin Holt 0:25
Come up with some clean, open energy towards her, with loving energy.
Doug Holt 0:40
Are you at the stage of life where your kids are looking at moving out, like they're going to college, or they're at the age where they're actually going to be leaving the home? Well, if that's the case, stick around, because today we're going to talk about exactly what happens when the kids get old enough to move out and you and your wife are left alone. On today's episode, I'm joined by my beautiful wife, Erin, and she and I are going to talk about what it's like from a woman's point of view when that happens and what you, as a man, can do about it. Erin, thanks for being here.
Erin Holt 1:10
Thanks for having me, as always.
Doug Holt 1:12
It's awesome. We've had a great vacation, so it feels good. Spring break's over, but this is a topic that we're talking about now that I hear from guys all the time, right? They've raised the kids, they've been working their tail off, and the kids are just getting ready to leave the nest or have just left the nest. They find that their wife has really just been sticking around to keep the family together while the kids are still there.
Erin Holt 1:38
I definitely hear this from clients as well. And being inside TPM, I hear this side from men as well.
Doug Holt 1:39
It sucks, right? The guys think that things are going to be okay. A lot of guys have the story that, okay, when the kids leave the house, things are going to be better because my wife and I now have all this time to rekindle. But the problem is they've had so much disconnection for so long that a lot of the women, right, are planning their exit ahead of time. And she's just gone: "As soon as the kids leave, I'm out of here."
Erin Holt 2:10
Unfortunately, I've heard that it's pretty common as well.
Doug Holt 2:13
So what's occurring from a woman's point of view?
Erin Holt 2:16
Oh, it's a deep desire to keep the family unit together while the kids are under the roof. Specifically from this point of view of the women, it's like a lot of patience. Women have a deep well of being able to hold patience, to be able to keep the unit together. And also, you know, there are different angles of deep loneliness, loneliness within the marriage, not saying she's the only one, obviously, but from her side. And then there's the loneliness of, like, my babies, our babies, who will always be the babies, right, are leaving our house. Everything's changing. Everything's going to be different. And I don't even maybe know who my partner is anymore or how to do this without our kids honestly distracting us. It can feel like she's ready to kind of fly the coop with the kids.
Doug Holt 3:08
Well, I remember early on in my days of coaching, there was a woman, and I remember her telling me that, "Hey, Doug, as soon as my kids leave, I'm taking off." She happened to be going to Spain, she had her plans to go to Spain, and she actually ended up doing that. She executed on her plan. She went to Spain and basically moved there and kind of started her other life. It was almost like she was going through her 20s again, if you will, right? I remember at the time she was going to gin bars and things like that, and I was still talking to her about what was happening. She met another man while being over there, right? Because she was so disconnected from her husband and her life, but also her identity changed. Her identity went from primary caregiver at the home, taking care of the kids, she had a purpose. She felt her purpose was taking care of the children, and now that the children were gone, what's my purpose? And on top of that, her husband was completely oblivious to this. He was one of those guys, very successful. He put his head down and was getting work done, and his story, I knew him peripherally, was more of, "I'm providing for my family." So he was completely caught off guard when this all happened.
Erin Holt 4:23
I would imagine that would suck.
Doug Holt 4:26
Absolutely, it would suck. And we see this happen at TPM a lot, where guys will come in and they'll join our program or inquire about it because they're curious: how can I actually save this? Can I turn this around? And sometimes the wife has either already left, kind of an Eat, Pray, Love type situation. I've never read the book, but I get the premise of it because I've heard about it so many times from women talking about it and men referencing it, and also just disconnection, right? The kids have left. There's almost like sorrow in the house, mourning, if you will. But I have seen a lot of men turn this around, which we'll talk about in a little bit. Before we go to that, I'm curious, because I'm guessing a lot of guys listening to this that are either in that situation or maybe their kids are teenagers and they're going, "Oh crap, maybe I should be preparing for this. It's going to happen four years from now," or what have you. What's going on from the woman's perspective? Let's say the kids are 17 and leaving the house a year from now. Is she most likely already planning what she's going to do?
Erin Holt 5:32
As always, I can't speak for all women, but if we're talking about the woman who's thinking of leaving, she already has some sort of plan or thought process around that. Most of the time, by the time a woman leaves, she's been trying many, many things for many years. Women don't just leave at the drop of a hat, so it's probably been years of processing before she has gotten to the point of actually leaving. I will say another angle is that, unless you have your kids really, really young, a lot of what’s culminating at the same time for many couples is that, during the period when children are leaving the home, women are often going through perimenopause or menopause, which changes women drastically as well. So there are different angles happening here. Should couples, not just men, but absolutely couples, prepare for this? Yes. We know it's coming. It's like anything else. If this were business, you wouldn't even question putting a plan together for this and executing and reevaluating all the time what's working and what's not. So the same thing applies to your marriage. We know your children are going to grow. I wish we could push the pause button and make that stop, but it's not reality. So absolutely, start learning as much as you can on how to prepare yourself and your marriage for the smoothest transition as possible, and just acknowledge the many mixed feelings when this happens.
Doug Holt 7:00
It doesn't have to be bad to go through this, right? We get men that come through the program, so we have a program called The Activation Method. It's a methodology. You're aware of this, but some of our newer listeners might not be. It's an eight-week program that helps men save their marriage, bring trust and safety back into the home, and re-spark it. I call it Marriage 2.0, like you're starting over with your marriage, and you're able to do that. Some of the guys that come in are like, "Hey, my marriage is okay. It's not on the verge of breaking down, but I want to make sure it doesn't." Okay is not good enough. I want it to be great. And the guys who are proactive experience night-and-day differences compared to the couple I was just mentioning. When she went to Spain, he was caught off guard. I have to believe he was just assuming or hoping, like, "Hey, it's not horrible, so it's all going to work out. Next year it'll be fine," and that next year never happens. In that guy's case, and I happen to know, she met another man, which is really common, unfortunately. But you can pull that back and you can start over. One hundred percent, you can make that a fresh start.
Erin Holt 8:09
I was just thinking about my own parents. I remember asking my mom specifically about this a few years ago, like, "How do you handle that?" Because once you become a parent, you start reflecting on different stages of life from a different angle. She said, "Well, we were super involved parents and loved being at all your events and sporting activities and all the things." My brother is older, so when I was a junior in high school, they started going to a kayaking club together once a week. It was something that could bring them back together over something they both loved doing. It's healthy, gets them outside, and they met other like-minded people. They ended up doing that together for over 20 years and met some of the best friends of their lives at a totally new season of life. It was some glue that brought them back together. So it doesn't, it gets to be as easy or as hard as you make it. You can create time for your marriage again, and it's vital that you do something that brings you together. It doesn't matter what it is, game night, a kayaking club, hiking, but something that can be easily accessed, that brings you both joy and allows you to enjoy each other during that activity.
Doug Holt 9:19
I couldn't agree more. I think there are some fundamental things that need to happen too, right? Because a lot of these guys are hearing from their wives, "I don't feel safe around you." So let's touch on that. I know it's an aside, but I think it's a really important part of the foundation. Because I know for myself, as a man, when I first heard you say, "I don't feel safe," I thought you meant you didn't feel physically safe. I've never hit you or pushed you or done anything like that, so how could you not feel safe? It didn't make any sense to me. I didn't understand the concept of emotional safety the way that I do now from a woman's perspective. Going to a kayaking club is great, and playing pickleball is fun, but if she's not feeling emotionally safe, you're not going kayaking or playing pickleball more than once. She might do it out of obligation. Now, speak from your perspective on the importance of providing that emotional safety for a woman.
Erin Holt 10:19
I can speak to it from a client point of view and a personal point of view. Being in a marriage where the woman feels not safe versus safe is like night and day, a completely different marriage for both partners. Because when a woman feels safe, you're going to get the best versions of her. You're going to get the playful version, the flirty version, the sexy version, the inquiring version, the version that respects you and admires you, and all the things that you crave and that you find very attractive in her. Those parts can't come out when she does not feel emotionally safe. You will get the opposite. You'll get the experience of her where she's hardened up, seems more critical, cold, distant, non-sexual, the ice queen. She's not sparkly. She gets sparkly by feeding off your energy and your attention from her protector and provider. So you will get the unsparkly version if she does not feel safe. So it's really vital for a thriving relationship to have emotional safety.
Do you want me to talk about ways to create that? One of the things that sounds so simple but is really, really important, that I've learned with coaching many clients, is really understanding the vast difference between men and women and how we are insanely different. It's really intriguing how we all want our partner to do life and act the way that we do. And if you are married to the opposite sex, it's just not reality, especially, I mean anybody in general, but really getting curious and doing a lot of work to understand the differences between men and women would be a really solid place to start. I know I teach a lot of that, and I know you guys teach a lot of that. It can bring a lot of aha moments about biologically why she does things the way she does and why you do the things the way you do. It can remove the grip of the storylines that can get created, like, “Oh, she's so crazy,” or “She's so chaotic,” or “She's different every week. I can't keep up,” and remove the negativity, instead of getting curious and really understanding that the feminine is so different than the masculine, that we're cyclical, and we are like the flow of water. We are so incredibly different. And then also having a deeper understanding of yourself about why you do the things that you do.
Another way is really allowing her the space to take care of herself, whatever that looks like, you don't get to judge. I actually talked about this yesterday on a call within TPM. Ways that you can help bring her back to her feminine, which is a part of her that you want to experience, is by allowing her the space to take care of herself.
Doug Holt 12:58
Hey guys, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure we can both agree that in order to fix something, you need to know what's broken. And not only do you need to know what's broken, but you also need a step-by-step methodology on how you can fix it. That's the easiest way to do it, right? Otherwise, you're going to be toiling with things. That's why I created a free training, a training that not only shows you how you got to where you are, where your relationship is missing that love, respect, admiration, and even intimacy that it used to have, but also how you get it back. How do you retain that, where your wife's looking at you the same way she used to look at you when she said, “I do”? You know, I don't know about you, but for me, when my wife looks at me like I'm her man, I feel like I can conquer the world, and I want that for you. Simply go over to thepowerfulman.com/scales. That's thepowerfulman.com/scales, and I have a free video training for you. You can just click play and see if this resonates for you. Now, back to the podcast.
Erin Holt 14:01
So she takes care of herself during week one of her cycle, and it's like, “I'm going for sprints and hard workouts and sweating until I can't breathe.” And then another way she takes care of herself a few weeks later is she's laying on the couch watching trash TV. Do not judge her. She's in a cycle. I'm not talking about every specific scenario, but it's about allowing her the space to have time with herself. That is a big deal, and not judging how she uses that time.
Doug Holt 14:26
Well, I think that's critical, right? Because I know for myself, I can often find myself assuming that the way you're going to take care of yourself is the way I would take care of myself, and vice versa. It's human nature to have that assumption. So it's really critical to understand that you watching trash TV on the couch, not that you would ever do that, but it doesn't mean anything. I might go work on the computer, which doesn't sound relaxing to you. So it's just understanding that we both are different. That's a strength, not a weakness.
Erin Holt 15:02
Yes. So that sounds simple, and you'd be surprised how much that can bring a deep breath into your relationship. When your partner is constantly feeling judged by you, even if you don't say the words, they can feel your energy. That comes back to another important point: energy is everything. So be really responsible for how you're showing up with her and with him. From a guy's perspective, you can be responsible by getting really centered and grounded with your energy, clearing off whatever you need to from your workday or from whatever you have going on, and coming forward with clean, open, loving energy towards her.
The other thing I was just going to say is to be in integrity. If you say you're going to do something, do it, because that's a big deal. If you say you're going to do something and don't follow through, which we all do at times, clean it up. For example, “I said I was going to do this, but I didn't get to it. I'll get to that by Thursday.” That also applies to having conversations. If you need to talk about something in your relationship, let her know when you can be available for that. Don't just say, “I don't have time for that,” and leave her hanging. Be an active partner. Say, “I know we need to talk about this in our marriage. Let's schedule time for Thursday after work.” Great. Then it's not going to be this hanging bomb between you two, like you can never talk about it. Otherwise, it's basically just a ticking time bomb.
Doug Holt 16:27
Real quick, I want to touch on something you did there twice. What you're explaining to the guys is the importance of closing the loop. Not just saying, “Hey, I don't have time,” but, “Hey, I don't have time right now, but I can talk about this tonight or next Tuesday.” So there's a loop closed, and she knows that it's coming back and not just being discarded.
Erin Holt 16:46
Exactly. And also that you are responsible for helping maintain the emotional health and connection of the relationship, that is not all on her, and that you're invested in it. Because the outcome you both want is the same: a happy, fun, connected, sexy marriage. Who doesn't want that? Exactly. That takes intention, work, and energy on repeat.
Doug Holt 17:09
Yep, absolutely.
Erin Holt 17:10
Let’s see. Other top things are also being able to give her space to share her feelings and not taking them personally. We orient through the world through our feelings, so if we have a safe place to share them, where we're not going to be judged, attacked, or experience withdrawal or shutdown from you, that would be a really big step forward. Being safe like, “Hey, tell me what's going on in your world.” When she has a space where she can share her feelings, she can work through them instead of carrying them and holding them, and kind of separating from you with them because you're not a safe place to share.
Doug Holt 17:49
Do you think the man should do the same thing, or do you think a man needs to stay in the leadership role and not share as many things that are going wrong for him?
Erin Holt 18:02
A mix. It's a little different. With men, I would say a really healthy thing is to find somewhere like TPM where you can go share, break down, gather advice, and be in the stage of, “I don't know how to handle this. I don't know what's going on.” That’s a really healthy place to go. Then come to her where she can count on you to lead yourself. Be able to say, “I'm working through this thing. This is a really challenging situation.” Of course, share what's going on, but do not put it on her, because it can create a really weird dynamic with us being in the nurturing role where we almost become your therapist or mother, and that's really unsexy for both sides. We need to know that you can handle yourself in your own life. Everybody is going to go through challenging things, and it's important that you're not just turning to drinking, smoking, checking out, or playing the victim, but that you're being proactive and doing something healthy to help yourself.
Doug Holt 19:06
Awesome. What else can the guy do to provide emotional safety?
Erin Holt 19:11
Let’s see. Energy is honestly one of the biggest things. Be responsible for your energy and be a safe place where she can share. It’s not that you're not going to have moody days, but it becomes really unsafe when we do not know what version of you we're going to get. For example, Tuesday you're mean and moody after work because work was hard, then the next day you're fun and light and playful, and the next day you're tired and grumpy, and then suddenly you're saying, “Wait, let's go have fun this weekend. I'm in a good mood now.” She’s just like, “Oh my God, I can't even relax around you because you're like Jekyll and Hyde.” That is very unsafe. So that goes back to being responsible for your energy and managing yourself.
Doug Holt 19:54
Gotcha. So going back to this guy who's in a situation where the kids are going to be leaving soon, or have already left, is there something specific? What I'm hearing you say is he can call this out and say, “Hey, look, I know things are changing, or things have changed around here. Let's have a conversation about our marriage and the steps we want to take to move forward.”
Erin Holt 20:24
Lead it. We know it's coming. Just like in work, you know different seasons are coming, and you would lead the team to do X, Y, Z, right? Same with your marriage. Lead your marriage. It's really a time when so much is changing, and it's a time you can capitalize on having your marriage be the strongest it's ever been. You've already had so much history. You've been through the young stage, the raising babies stage, and all the stages of kids, with all the wonderfulness and hardships. Then it’s like, “Oh my gosh, we did all that. Now we get to be in a season of life where it's just us for a little bit.” And hopefully, if we get to be grandparents, this could be the most joyous time if you really put your energy and attention into it.
Doug Holt 21:08
I was coaching a guy one-on-one who was going through a major life transition with his wife. I told him, “Man, make this your new anniversary.” He asked, “What do you mean?” I said, “This is Marriage 2.0.” He and his wife now call it that. I told him to make it their new anniversary. They’re now stronger than they've ever been. Anybody who goes through trials or tribulations, like guys in the military or those who go through The Alpha Reset or other transformational events, when someone goes through something extremely difficult and comes out the other side, they are so much more bonded and closer. This transition of the kids leaving and the identity changing is a big transformational change. As the man, when you and I are in this situation, I like to see us lead it through: “Hey, this is Marriage 3.0 or whatever stage we're at, and let's celebrate this. What can we now do from this space?”
Erin Holt 22:12
You said something in there. If you guys can really come together over this, it creates what you touched on: when you come through something really hard, whatever the hardship is, it creates an oxytocin bond on the other side, more for women than men. So if she feels that super bond to you, like, “Oh my gosh, we are in partnership around this together,” it strengthens the relationship. What I've heard can happen with some couples is that she is almost made fun of because she’s so sad. It becomes like a joke or a put-down, or she's prodded with comments like, “Oh, who are you now?” This isn't a funny thing. It's a huge life transition for everybody involved. Bringing love and connection to it is essential. You can still have fun with it, but it’s not going to work if you're making fun of her. I’ll tell you that right now. It’s a very tender time, as it should be.
Doug Holt 23:10
Everybody's different, right, in how they handle things. One of the things that I see with guys is, so, one of the things we teach within The Activation Method is the Clean Slate Method. Most guys do it wrong. So guys, if you're listening to this and you've got my book, it talks about the Clean Slate Method. Give it to a coach. Our coaches revise them probably five or six times at a minimum, so get it right. But if you get the Clean Slate Method right, it allows you to have a clean slate, like drawing a line in the sand and saying, “From this point forward, we're going to live our life this way.” It allows you that delineation point within your relationship, and this is a perfect time to do it because you have this big life transition. Using something like the Clean Slate Method could allow you a fresh starting point for you and your partner, your wife, in this case, to move forward.
Erin Holt 24:10
You kind of get a clean slate to refigure how you want to live life now that you get to focus more on yourself and focus more on your marriage.
Doug Holt 24:18
Well, for us guys, we like methodologies. We like plans, right? As a business guy myself, I'm very goal-oriented and very driven, like you. You and I were talking to an architect, and he was discussing budgets, and I said, “Just tell me what it's going to cost.” From the idea stage, this is literally how I think, just tell me how much it's going to cost, and I'll go out and make the money. I don't care what the number is; I'll go out and achieve that goal. That's the lens through which I look at the world, and a lot of the men who come through our program are the same way. That's why, over the last 10 years of coaching men, we've developed The Activation Method with this proven methodology, and part of it is the Clean Slate Method, which gives them the tools and skills they need.
I think a lot of guys reach this stage when the kids are leaving, and they're excited and going through their own transition, but it's not usually as deep as what the wife is going through, especially if she's a stay-at-home mom, because she's been taking care of the house and is now finding a new sense of meaning. Guys need a plan, a blueprint, step by step, of what to do to make her feel safe, to gain back trust, and to lead in the house. You don't have to be a “nice guy” walking around trying to figure out what she's feeling today or adjusting your mood based on hers. I hear this from wives all the time. One woman said, “I want my husband to just be a man,” not someone trying to figure her out and adjust his mood based on hers, but someone who leads with steady energy. A woman isn't looking for someone she can simply tell what to do like a servant. That feels unsafe. She wants a real man, someone who leads with confidence and presence.
So let's do this. For the guys listening to this who are thinking, “Okay, this is starting to make sense, what Erin and Doug are talking about,” let's give them your one pro tip. If this resonates, what should they do first?
Erin Holt 26:37
The first thing that came to me, and I always listen to intuitive hits, is: turn towards your marriage. Turn towards your marriage.
Doug Holt 26:46
Yes, I like that one. I'm going to double down on it. I'll add one though. Turning towards your marriage, to me, is like creating a business plan. You said this, right? And you know me, if there's a problem in the business, whether it be legal, financial, marketing, or whatever it is, I'm going to attack it head-on. I'm going to develop a plan, hire the best consultants, and learn the best techniques. I know right now a lot of us business guys are diving deep into AI, going down the rabbit hole to master it. Guys get to do the same thing in their marriage. If there's an issue, attack it. As I say at the end of the show, “In the moment of insight, take massive action.” If you're getting an insight from this conversation, take massive action. It doesn't have to be TPM, but find a coaching company, preferably one for men, that has been around for five or ten years, not something new where they're experimenting with techniques. Look for something with proven results, led by someone who has been married, run a business, and helped other men through similar challenges. There are companies where the coach claims to help married men but has never been married. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but it's almost laughable that men would trust the success of their family to someone who has never walked in their shoes.
Awesome as always, babe. I appreciate you coming here and taking time out of your day. I know you've got a busy schedule with your coaching clients, helping women keep their families together and shine brightly. I also know you're about to go pick up our beautiful kids. So I appreciate you.
Erin Holt 28:37
Thank you. Appreciate you too. Thank you, everyone.
Doug Holt 28:39
Guys, if you're in this situation where the empty nest is coming, or maybe it's already here, or maybe your kids are younger and you're planning ahead to be proactive rather than reactive, this is an opportunity for you to create Marriage 2.0 or maybe even Marriage 3.0, depending on where you're at. You can draw a line in the sand, but you can't do that unless you're taking action. My recommendation to you is to learn how to create emotional safety in your home. Do what Erin was telling you, turn towards your marriage, and you do that by taking action, not by being passive. And like I said, in the moment of insight, take massive action. We'll see you next time on the TPM Show.
