Episode #1123
Most guys don’t get stuck because they failed. They get stuck because of what they make that failure mean.
In this episode, we dig into how shame actually works, why it keeps you spinning in the same patterns, and what it takes to break out of it. Because there’s a big difference between owning something you did and turning it into your identity.
We talk about why keeping things to yourself makes the weight heavier, not lighter, and how simply bringing things into the open starts to shift everything. You’ll hear why a lot of men avoid ownership without realizing it, and how that avoidance quietly shows up in their relationships, their communication, and their connection at home.
This is also about understanding the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt can actually move you forward. Shame keeps you stuck. And if you don’t know the difference, you’ll keep repeating the same cycle without realizing why. We also go into what real ownership looks like. Not just saying the words, but actually sitting in the discomfort, being present with the impact you’ve had, and doing the part most guys try to skip. That’s where trust starts to rebuild. That’s where connection comes back.
If you’ve been carrying something, avoiding a conversation, or feeling stuck in the same patterns, this will help you see a different way through it.
If you want a clear next step on how to start fixing what’s not working in your marriage, go get the free training here:
https://fixmarriage.thepowerfulman.com/scales
It’ll walk you through what to focus on so you can rebuild connection and start moving things in the right direction again.
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Transcription
Tim Matthews 0:00
As human beings, we are meaning-making machines.
Stephen 0:04
It's a human need. A basic human need is to be able to connect with other people.
Tim Matthews 0:08
We are constantly applying meaning to things.
Stephen 0:11
I had no one really to help with that.
Tim Matthews 0:14
I've been there. I get it.
Stephen 0:15
No one's going to judge, no one's going to criticize, and no one's going to try to solve necessarily.
Tim Matthews 0:19
Shame can only exist in the darkness.
Stephen 0:22
Put some light in it, it reduces the feeling of shame and stops me from internalizing it.
Tim Matthews 0:27
I truly do believe that the world is working in my favor.
Tim Matthews 0:41
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the TPM Show. My name is Tim Matthews. I am your host, and I'm joined by the wonderful Mr. King of Cheese.
Stephen 0:50
Stephen Fleming.
Tim Matthews 0:50
Stephen Fleming. So we're going to dive in. We're going to dive in. I know you've been in the movement for several years and you've seen some phenomenal results. We've recorded a few episodes now, so I'm sure most people can go back and catch the past ones if they want to hear a little bit more about your story. For sure. So, as you know, we shared in the TPM app, the private community, that we were going to do some podcasts, and we asked the guys for topics. One of the topics here is coming to terms with acceptance of failures, forgiveness, and true ownership, and how to let go of shame. So do you want to take it away?
Stephen 1:40
Wow, it's a big subject, isn't it?
Tim Matthews 1:42
It is. I mean, the thing that comes to mind for me immediately is that, as human beings, we are meaning-making machines, right? We are constantly applying meaning to things. So if somebody's struggling to come to terms with a failure and thus reach forgiveness and therefore take true ownership, it makes me wonder what meaning they are applying to the situation. Because if somebody is in, and I'm not saying this guy is, by the way, but if somebody is in more of a victim-based mindset, I think they're really going to struggle to come to terms with failures and also take ownership. The narrative that can often go hand in hand with that is, "This thing happened to me. The world is so unfair. I tried my best, and yet this still happened. See, everyone's out to get me. The world is out to get me," which is a very unhealthy narrative and a very unhealthy meaning to apply to a situation.
Whereas, on the other hand, if somebody believes that life is always working out for them and they're able to tap into faith, whatever that means, be it religion, spirituality, or something else, I'm a big believer in alignment and faith and all that fun stuff. I truly do believe that the world is working in my favor. I haven't always thought that, but over the past 15 years or so, it's definitely been a big belief of mine. As a result of believing that the world is conspiring for me instead of against me, the meaning that I can then apply, I'm not perfect by any means, and I can still get triggered and all that fun stuff, but predominantly my anchor point will be to come back to this faith-based perspective. This then allows me to apply a helpful meaning to a situation, and ultimately it also helps me, for the most part.
Not always, because I've had some tricky situations in my life, but this is where shame comes in. If somebody drops into shame about something that's happened, let's say they're not going to be a victim of circumstance, they may still want to wallow in the self-pity of what they've done. And I get it; sometimes licking your wounds can be helpful, as long as you can extract the lessons from it. You take ownership and you apologize if you need to apologize, or whatever it may be, making sure your side of the street is clean.
Tim Matthews 4:44
But if there is some shame that they fall into, and they go into this pit of shame, we talk about this cycle of shame, sabotage, and sedation. People feel shame, so then they go on to sabotage their efforts because they don't feel worthy of whatever it is they have. Then they go on to sedate because it's too uncomfortable to deal with, which propagates the shame, more sabotage, more sedation, it goes around.
In that scenario, they're often very much internalizing the events. So rather than this being something that I did or something that happened, it becomes someone who I am. They can often define themselves or look at themselves through a lens that defines them by what it is they have done, which is a very risky way to live. It can put you on the path of external validation because if you're going to define yourself by what it is you have done, not only can that work against you when there's a failure or something like that, but when there are huge successes, that still works against you. You still get defined by the way that people see you, the money that you have, the house that you own, or the car that you drive, whatever it may be. Those two places are very much off-center from living a life where you are internally validated.
Oftentimes, in that pit of shame where you are defining yourself by what it is you have done, shame can only exist in the darkness. As soon as you bring it into the light by talking about it, by talking about how you feel or by owning the impact of your actions on the other person, it starts to be lifted. Especially when you surround yourself with other people who have been in a similar spot and you receive acceptance from them versus abandonment.
We can often think that in the moment of us doing something or falling into shame, the story that can keep us stuck there is abandonment: "If I tell this, what will people think of me? Ultimately, will they leave me, and then I'll be alone?" So we don't want to say anything, but then obviously we stay stuck because this heaviness weighs on us. It's impossible to lie to ourselves, but when we share it and bring the darkness into the light with trusted people, and it's accepted, when people turn toward us instead of away from us, that fog begins to lift.
Stephen 7:21
Definitely. And as you were going through the description of the problem, the challenge there, that's exactly what was coming up for me, the idea of giving it a voice, giving it light. I found that voicing it to yourself, saying it out loud even just to yourself, instantly puts some light on it, reduces the feeling of shame, and stops me from internalizing it.
But absolutely, to your point, the biggest thing for me, in the past, I was somebody who didn't have much in the way of friends. Going back to pre-TPM, sort of seven or eight years ago or longer, I had no one really to help with that. One of the things I've found through TPM, aside from all of the coaching, is that brotherhood of other people, of other men. It's a two-way thing. The fact that I feel comfortable with people I can pick up the phone to and share something, pretty much anything, and I have done. I'm not going to go into some of the gory details, but to feel comfortable knowing there is somebody I can go to and say, "There's this," and to know that you'll just be heard. No one's going to judge, no one's going to criticize, and no one's going to try to solve necessarily, unless there's something that you ask for help with. And they will feel the same to share with you.
It's a human need, a basic human need, to be able to connect with other people. I didn't really realize it was something that was massively missing in my life. In the past, if I had something and I was feeling shame around it, I would have just buried it down, pushed it down, and internalized it. Over the last few years, being able to share things has helped me massively. I've also seen the benefit to others of them sharing either one-on-one, with a group, or at one of the retreats or events that you run. I've had the honor to help assist on some of those, and you see that transformation, it’s wonderful.
Tim Matthews 9:36
Absolutely. I think one of the things that can often lead to men feeling shame is the loneliness. They don't have other men around them who they can turn to and confide in. Maybe it's because they have friends around them where everything's kind of surface level. They meet them down the pub and have a beer and all that fun stuff, which is great, but whenever they try to bring up something uncomfortable, it doesn't go anywhere. A lot of guys don't know what to do with that, and they'll just turn to humor or banter or whatever it may be. I've been there. I get it.
So not feeling like you've got a safe space to be able to share can definitely fuel the isolation and the story. Ultimately, the root of the shame is the worry and the fear that you're going to be abandoned. If you look at it from a very primal level, it's a fear that you'll be cast out from the pack and left on your own. If you're on your own, you're very vulnerable. So when you've got that brotherhood, to your point, and you take the risk in sharing, and it is heard, and you are seen, and you give it a voice, man, it feels like a weight is lifted. It really does. You see that big sigh of relief.
Stephen 10:59
It's the old "problem shared, problem halved."
Tim Matthews 11:01
It really is. It really is. I love that saying. I'm probably going to butcher it right now, something along the lines of people don't care as much as we think they do.
Doug Holt 11:08
But I want to buy you a gift. Look, if your marriage is struggling, and let's be real, every marriage struggles at some point, but yours is struggling where you've lost that love, admiration, and respect, I want to help you. I want to buy you a copy of the book that I wrote, A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. I've distilled over eight years of programs that we've developed at TPM to help men just like you save their marriages without talking about it. There's no fluff, no BS. It's an action plan that you can start using today to actually save your marriage and bring that love and respect back into your family, back into your house. You deserve it. Look, all I ask is that you pay the postage, you pay the shipping. I'll buy the book for you. That way, you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio and get your copy now.
Tim Matthews 12:02
Something goes along the lines of, "People don't care as much as we think they do," or, "People don't, yeah, yeah."
Stephen 12:11
You're so in your head about what you think they care about.
Tim Matthews 12:13
You think they care a lot more than they do. Now, they still care, but they don't care anywhere near as much as you think. They're so wrapped up in their own worlds.
Stephen 12:23
Everyone is in the same boat. They're all thinking the same thing: "Oh, everyone else is worried about what I'm doing and saying." They're all doing the same thing.
Tim Matthews 12:31
And oftentimes, when we share, we don't know what's going on in the other person's life. I've seen it so many times that when one guy shares, it gives the other guy permission to then share something in return that was never on the table. So not only has he set himself free, it's a gift of freedom. They're giving one another this key to freedom by being real, honest, and open.
Stephen 12:56
The other thing I see almost on a weekly basis, if I'm getting on a TPM pack call or whatever, is that somebody shares something and I'm like, "I've got that going on for me too." Or I share something with someone else. The number of times there's that commonality, people going through it. Call it the universe or whatever, but there's nothing new under the sun. How many times, when I share, other people are like, "Actually, right now, I'm going through the exact same or a very similar thing," or "I've just been through it, and here's some support."
Tim Matthews 13:40
Massive, massive. It's huge. We see a lot of this at the The Alpha Reset as well. Obviously, for those that don't know, it's a four-day transformational experience. The guys in the Ascension Blueprint get it as part of the program, and the guys in The Brotherhood go through it as well. We have guys share some of their deepest, darkest, most painful moments they've never shared before. But them trying to stuff that shame down only leaves this pit of emptiness that they try to fill with external success, but it never works, never. When they choose to release it, it takes courage and bravery. But when they do, with safe people in a safe space, the freedom that comes with it is huge. It creates space that lightness can flow into, peacefulness, joy, and happiness, because we can't pick and choose our emotions. If we are resisting feeling the heavier ones, guilt, shame, whatever it may be, we also block the lighter ones too. Then we can wonder why we're not happy. Why is success not landing? Why am I not happy despite having everything that I thought would make me happy? This, in turn, furthers the shame and the judgment.
But just on this piece of ownership and forgiveness, one of the things that gets to happen when you take ownership, be it of a failure or something you've done that could have impacted other people, is that it's hard. It's hard to sit with the reality of the pain that your actions may have inflicted on another. To sit with it means that you sit with the guilt, but if you internalize it, you drop into shame. Guilt is "what I did was wrong." Shame is "I am wrong." Shame, obviously, as we've just spoken about, exists in the darkness, and you can bring it into the light. I strongly recommend having a safe space, like we've spoken about, to process the shame piece so you can then sit with the guilt and be in the experience where you validate and own the fact that: "I'm really sorry. I deeply, deeply regret doing that thing. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I wish I'd never done it. I'm so sorry for what it put you through." You're probably going to have to validate this over and over again, depending on what it is.
But the key thing here is to not fall into shame. If I go back to the top of the episode, we spoke about the meaning that we give to a situation. If we fall into victimhood or think the world is against us, then we can internalize a failure, let's say it's a business failure, and make it all about us: "What does this mean about me?" and our self-image. But in that space, there's such a level of self-absorption that the business failure may have also impacted family members, perhaps you've borrowed money from family or put your wife through something. So while shame has its place and you may want to process it, you also have to become present to deal with the guilt that may arise as you validate and hold space for the impact of that failure on others.
This is key. Guys often miss this because they don't want to sit with the discomfort of the impact on others, so they let shame creep in. This is where that particular event can come up again and again over the years: "Well, when that happened, you weren't there," or "It was just so difficult." Guys wonder why it keeps coming up. It keeps coming up because it's unresolved. The person doesn't feel seen or heard about what happened. You haven't sat with them in the discomfort and owned your actions and their impact, so they're still reeling with frustration. You just want to move on because it's too uncomfortable, but you have to be willing to enter that space, sit in it, validate, and be okay in the sadness, be okay in the pain, and know that you're going to get through it together rather than trying to run from it, deny it, or pretend it doesn't exist.
Stephen 18:34
Totally. And as you say, when you get stuck in that cycle of shame, you're just not going to see that side of things.
Tim Matthews 18:42
I'm working with a guy right now, an amazing guy, and about six months ago, he was saying, "I'm doing such a good job of being grounded." Awesome. Well, what are you saying in that moment? "Well, I'm not saying anything. I'm hearing the same thing on repeat again and again, Charlie Brown." It doesn't sound like you've been grounded; it sounds like you're reacting. But because your reaction used to be blowing up, and now you're not blowing up, you're just shutting down quietly and withdrawing your presence. You're mistaking it for groundedness. He couldn't understand why his relationship wasn't going well or why he wasn't connecting with his wife.
So for the following 90 to 120 days, all we focused on was presence, his awareness of his triggers, and what he came to realize was that in that moment, instead of hearing what his wife was going through, he would hear how he was failing. He would internalize something different. As a result, his "little boy" would come out, and because his little boy felt rejected, that then led to his protector coming out. His protector would swoop in and react with either shutting down or leaving the room. But the conscious adult man was the one left longing for the connection. These are different parts of him that we did some work with through shadow work. Ultimately, it went really well. He's now way more present, integrated, and grounded. He can sit in the space, and his wife is opening up to him in a way that she hasn't done in years.
We now have a place where we're working on emotional availability so that he can remain emotionally available in the moment. He's gone from reacting to staying present. But now, because he's been seeing these conversations as a negative thing, "When are we going to move past them?", I'm like, "No, no, this is a good thing. She's now feeling safe enough. You have been consistent enough that she can now open up. The key is for you to engage with her in it." But he says, "That's just too painful for me to do, because then I have to sit with the pain of what my actions actually caused, the impact of them." And yes, it is painful. This is where you meet her in that space so she's not holding the pain on her own. You can be there with her. There will be tears, and there will be validation, apologies, and ownership. But on the other side of it, that in itself is intimacy.
You're wanting physical intimacy and complaining about a lack of it, but you have to deal with the emotional intimacy first. She's inviting you into this intimate space by sharing her experience. You get to go in there and be with her in it, and potentially share yours too, show genuine guilt and remorse for what you did, not just the words. Remember, 70% of communication is nonverbal. Show it. Connect to it. Let her truly feel that you have genuine guilt and remorse for what you did. It's scary for him, very vulnerable, and questions arise like, "Will it be used against me?" All these things come up. But the point I'm making here is that with acceptance, ownership, and shame, you've got to lean in. It's only in that space of vulnerability that you arrive at a place of peacefulness and power. A lot of power exists within that space. It's powerful to enter in and be vulnerable. It's genuine, authentic, and the breeding ground for the physical intimacy that he craves.
Stephen 23:16
Because everyone's being, both parties are being vulnerable, and that, like you said about intimacy, I think a lot of men just think intimacy is physical, and it's so, so much more to it than that.
Tim Matthews 23:29
100%. Just going back to the top, because I don't want to go down a rabbit hole with that, the meaning we apply to things. So for him, the meaning he was applying to those conversations was, "When is this going to end? Why is she doing this?" He was missing the point that this was her opportunity. This was her inviting him into an intimate space. When he got that and applied a different meaning to it, it reframed it, and he then wanted to go for it, right? So in terms of coming to terms with acceptance of failures, forgiveness, and true ownership, and the shame piece,
Stephen 24:09
I think it's stepping away from the cycle of shame. If you get trapped in that cycle of shame, you're never going to go into that vulnerable side of it, the guilt, the vulnerability, the guilt, then hopefully the forgiveness, if that's there, or certainly the squaring of it so it doesn't repeat as an issue that comes up again and again, because then you just stick your head in the shame.
Tim Matthews 24:34
Well, forgiveness and shame cannot both exist, right? So if you're able to stay away from the shame, or have a place to process that, but then come back to the validation and the presence piece, and be accepted within that as well, and apply a particular meaning to the whole situation, then forgiveness and acceptance are going to be the likely path forwards.
Stephen 25:00
It's almost counterintuitive, I guess, isn't it? Some people think, "Oh, if we go here, then it's actually going to break stuff and push us further apart," but actually it can bring you closer.
Tim Matthews 25:11
Oh, 100%. Beautiful. Well done. Anything else you want to add before we head off?
Stephen 25:19
Oh no, I'm fairly good on that one. I think that's a lot to think about. I take a lot from this. It's deep. There’s a lot to think about.
Tim Matthews 25:28
If you actually apply what we've shared here, it's life-changing. It really is. I really hope it doesn't go over the listeners' heads. It's a great, great topic. So guys, thank you so much for tuning in. We love doing this, so thank you for listening. If you want to find out anything about our programs, The Activation Method, the Ascension Blueprint, the Academy, the Alpha Reset, or the Circle, just email VIP, that’s V-I-P, at thepowerfulman.com, and the team will get back to you. But until next time, we'll see you again on the TPM Show.
