Episode #1201
When a couple has been married or together for years, date night often slips into an automated routine. Even when husbands prioritize getting out of the house, conversations frequently default to household logistics, work stress, and child care schedules. While spending time together is a positive habit, treating date night as a predictable obligation strips away the excitement, mystery, and depth that originally brought a couple together.
In this episode, Tim Matthews is joined by Stephen (known as the “King of Cheese”) to discuss how married men can revitalize their relationships by bringing “first date energy” to their date nights. Stephen shares how shifting his mindset during an outing with his wife transformed a standard day out into a deeply connected, flowing experience. By dropping hidden expectations and approaching his wife with genuine curiosity, as if discovering who she is today rather than assuming she remains unchanged from when they first met, he created space for fresh, engaging conversation.
The discussion breaks down practical steps every husband can use to elevate date night:
Bringing fresh energy to dates prevents marriage from feeling transactional. By applying core framework principles to plan the perfect date night and mastering the 3 levels of conversation, men can eliminate routine boredom, deepen mutual attraction, and build lasting connection.
00:00 - Introduction: Welcoming Stephen and the TPM Journey
02:41 - What Is “First Date Energy” in Marriage?
03:58 - Doug Holt Mid-Roll: A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage
05:01 - Real-World Example: Shifting Energy and Flowing in the Moment
07:12 - Cultivating Genuine Curiosity and Asking Fresh Questions
09:13 - Avoiding the Assumption Trap: Recognizing People Change
11:10 - Setting Internal Boundaries on Kid Talk and Household Logistics
13:02 - Dressing Well and Raising Personal Appearance Standards
15:29 - Decompressing Before Dates to Show Up Present
16:04 - Taking the Lead on Decisions and Managing Expectations
18:00 - Creating Anticipation and Mystery for Your Wife
19:20 - Observing Her Response and Enjoying the Process
21:08 - The 3P Framework: Preparation, Presentation, and Practice
23:17 - Closing Remarks: Remembering to Keep It Fun
What does “first date energy” mean in a long-term marriage?
First date energy means approaching your wife with open curiosity, intentional effort, and excitement, similar to when you first started dating. It involves putting away distractions, dressing with pride, taking the lead on plans, and focusing on discovering who she is today without hidden agendas.
How can my wife and I avoid talking about the kids and logistics on date night?
You can prevent logistics talk by setting an intentional boundary before the date begins. Prepare a few fresh topics in advance, such as current books, music, podcasts, or personal goals, to keep the conversation focused on each other rather than household management.
Why is curiosity important when dating your wife?
People evolve over time, and assuming you already know everything about your spouse leads to flat, predictable interactions. Asking open-ended questions demonstrates that you value her internal world, making her feel seen, heard, and desired.
How does taking the lead improve date night?
Taking charge of decision-making, such as selecting a restaurant, choosing an activity, or handling logistics, removes decision fatigue for your wife. It allows her to relax into her femininity and enjoy the experience without feeling like she has to manage the outing.
If you want to access practical strategies for bringing fresh energy and connection back to your relationship, claim your free Date Night Cheat Sheet by emailing “Date Night” to VIP@thepowerfulman.com. You can also claim a copy of Doug Holt’s book, A Man’s Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It, or watch the free training video at The Powerful Man Scales.
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Stephen 00:00
Going in with no expectation either, other than just to be curious and to have fun.
Tim Matthews 00:04
I think that point you're making there about curiosity is key.
Stephen 00:07
Try not to have an assumption about what she might be listening to or reading, because that can change over time.
Tim Matthews 00:13
She's changed, you've changed.
Stephen 00:16
Making an effort with your appearance and doing it for yourself rather than anybody else.
Tim Matthews 00:21
You can also create a little bit of anticipation and mystery in the lead-up to the first date.
Stephen 00:25
Not being afraid to say what I'd like.
Tim Matthews 00:27
Preparation, presentation, practice.
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the TPM Show. My name's Tim Matthews. I am your host, and I am joined by King of Cheese.
Stephen 00:49
Tim, good to see you.
Tim Matthews 00:50
Good to see you as well, brother. I think we just need to make it clear why you're called the King of Cheese.
Stephen 00:57
Well, I think the name kind of speaks for itself.
Tim Matthews 01:03
The King of Cheese. You're the King of Cheese. Mysterious. The swagger, the swagger. I like it.
Stephen 01:07
That was christened upon me, I guess, through TPM over the years.
Tim Matthews 01:11
Your Reset, I think, because obviously at the end of your Reset, on day three this was going back, what, six years ago now?
Stephen 01:17
Yes, it was.
Tim Matthews 01:18
Yeah, your Reset was actually the first Reset we did after COVID.
Stephen 01:22
I remember it like it was yesterday.
Tim Matthews 01:24
Incredible bunch of guys there. Yourself, obviously. We had Chief, Mr. Andreason, who is now working on the TPM team, heading up the Navigate program. We then had Mr. Zulen, incredible man.
We then had I'm trying my best to not say names. I'm trying to think of nicknames Force of Nature.
Stephen 01:50
Force of Nature.
Tim Matthews 01:50
He was there. Yeah. The Postman.
Stephen 01:54
He was indeed.
Tim Matthews 01:55
Because he always delivers on time.
Stephen 01:57
Yeah. The Wizard of Wine was there as well.
Tim Matthews 01:58
Wizard of Wine. He was there, yes.
Anyway, needless to say, for you guys that are new to the show and haven't listened to Stephen and I before, Stephen's been in the movement for six years, seven years, or thereabouts, and initially came to help get your marriage back on track.
You've been on one hell of a journey, leveled up in so many ways. That's why I love the swagger at the beginning, because confidence was one of your big things, right?
Stephen 02:29
It was a massive thing for me a lack of it.
Tim Matthews 02:32
Exactly. Yeah. So to see you here and to feel you, and just that swagger, all of it, I love it. Fantastic.
So you have a topic for us.
Stephen 02:41
Yeah, I do. It's actually going back to some of the early-day stuff that I guess we learned in TPM, which was about energy that you bring on date nights.
I called it "first date energy" when I think I wrote about it, journaled about it, a couple of weeks ago.
Tim Matthews 02:59
Tell us, what do you mean? I mean, I can assume what you mean, but tell us. What do you mean by first date?
Stephen 03:04
Obviously, when you're in a relationship for some time, I feel that you can lose track of the importance of date night.
Let's go back to the first thing. There is making sure you make time to get out with your wife and date her and go out and have fun.
The thing I realized about that was that the energy you bring to that is very important as well, because even that can become, if you're doing date night on a regular basis, it can fall into the routineness of life in general.
"Okay, it's Thursday night, date night, off we go."
Maybe you don't bring the energy that you ought to in terms of curiosity about what's in their life, energy about what's going on for you. It can fall into a thing that you might go out to a nice restaurant or to a theater or movie, but actually you're still talking about just the kids and day-to-day logistics, and it's not as much fun.
Doug Holt 03:58
Hey guys, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure we can both agree that in order to fix something, you need to know what's broken, and not only need to know what's broken, but a step-by-step methodology on how you can fix it. That's the easiest way to do it, right? Otherwise, you're going to be toiling with things.
That's why I created a free training, a training that not only shows you how you got to where you are, where your relationship is missing that love, respect, admiration, and even intimacy that it used to have, to how you get it back.
How do you retain that, where your wife's looking at you the same way she used to look at you when she said, "I do"?
I don't know about you, but for me, when my wife looks at me like I'm her man, I feel like I can conquer the world, and I want that for you.
Simply go over to thepowerfulman.com/scales. That's thepowerfulman.com/scales, and I have a free video training for you. You can just click play and see if this resonates for you.
Now back to the podcast.
Stephen 05:01
This came to me over the summer. Jane, my wife, and I had a day out in York where we went to a one-day music festival, and the kids had gone to grandparents, so we had a free day and a free evening, free night.
I just thought, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna bring the first date energy and the curiosity around what's going on for Jane in her world, and also a bit about leading as well, about making the decisions about where we're going to go, what we're going to eat and drink.
The thing that came through for me with that was that me and Jane have been together for a long time. We've been married for nearly 11 years, together for a few years before that, and we're not the people that we were when we met.
Things have changed for her in her life and for me in mine. The things that we're interested in, things that we're into, and to use it as an opportunity to just have some interesting conversations and talk about maybe things that she's been reading.
That kind of curiosity you would have if you were on a first date. You want to know. Almost imagining that you don't know the other person so well and finding out some more interesting stuff.
I brought it on that day, and it went really well. I felt great. I felt really good. I think we had a really good connected time. It was a great day out. Everything went well.
We went for a few cocktails afterwards, which was perfect. Some of that, I felt, was just the flow of the day.
We were at a live outdoor show that finished about 10 o'clock in the evening. Lots of people there. We're like, "Let's go for a drink afterwards."
It was almost as if it was preordained. We found, literally around the corner from the venue in York, this little cocktail bar that was still open, not very busy, but busy enough.
Just went in, no great plan, some nice drinks. It just felt like we were really in a flow state in terms of having fun and enjoying ourselves.
It wasn't a massive night out, but it just felt perfect for that day, and everything connected together really well.
Going in with no expectation either, other than just to be curious and to have fun. So I had no hidden agenda around anything else, just to have a really fun time, and it served me well.
Tim Matthews 07:12
I think that point you're making there about curiosity is key, right?
Let's just take that a little bit deeper. So you said you were curious. Paint a picture for me. What did that look like?
Stephen 07:27
One thing is actually paying attention, talking like we are, looking in someone's eyes, not having your phone in your hand, not being distracted by something else, but just having that time and space to genuinely have a conversation, to listen.
When I'm asking questions about, "What good books are you reading? What music are you listening to at the moment?" That kind of thing, whatever it is.
Tim Matthews 07:55
What else? Let's get these questions nailed.
So you said, "What books are you into lately?" What music? What did you say? What music?
Stephen 08:05
Podcasts. I know Jane likes a lot of podcasts, like I do. We kind of cross-pollinate.
There's a lot of stuff you'll say, "Oh, I've listened to this. You might like this," or, "Try this. You might not."
We bring things to each other, and they're not all some of them are maybe personal development, but some of them are just comedy, music, general interest.
Try not to have an assumption about what she might be listening to or reading because that can change over time.
As I say, we've been together a long time. I think it's a bit of a trap to fall into to assume that the things that she was into when we first met are the same today.
Some of them will be. A lot of them are, but there'll be other things that have come along.
I think it's just a genuine interest in the other person. Doesn't have to be your wife or your girlfriend. It could be you and I having a beer in the pub or something like that. Just genuinely interested.
Tim Matthews 08:59
Going to bring first date energy to
Stephen 09:00
Bring it into your life. You can bring it into your business. Talk to your team.
When I go in and see my team at work, rather than just, "What are the problems? What's going on?" find out what's going on for them in their lives.
Tim Matthews 09:13
For sure.
I think you make a really solid point, and this is something we've spoken about before and, as you know, something we speak about a lot in the movement, making sure you're not just making assumptions.
Because exactly like you said, you've been with this woman a long time. She's changed, you've changed.
Oftentimes, when guys come into the movement and, let's say, their wife has stepped outside of the marriage let's just say it's been an emotional affair that the wife has had usually, from what we are told, and I've not spoken to any of the wives, so I'm not going to make assumptions, but from what the guys tell us, usually what has gone on there is somebody has started to show an interest in the wife, or even in the guy. Either one of them may step out.
But somebody has started to show an interest in them, and they like it, right? Because someone is genuinely being curious about who this person is. What does this person like?
To your point, if you're on a first date, that curiosity is naturally there.
So for you, what did you do to set yourself up for success when you were away with Jane, so that you could then bring first date energy and the phone rings.
Stephen 10:37
Well, there you go. First thing there is to make sure that thing is switched off.
Tim Matthews 10:45
But what did you do?
Because it's so easy when the guys are busy and they're just knocking things out. The day goes by, they know they've got date night coming up.
It's so easy for them to roll from the busyness of the day into the date night, and therefore this curiosity doesn't really happen.
So I'm curious what you did to set yourself up for success. I assume that you did, so that you could have this lens of curiosity on the date night.
Stephen 11:10
Yeah, that's a really good question.
The main thing I think I did was being conscious about not going down the path of the kind of conversations we would have just generally day to day, which are all the ones that are just logistics around family and stuff like that.
Try not to talk about the kids because we could just end up talking about the kids the whole time, and we love our kids to bits, don't get me wrong, but it's like, "Okay, let's just park that for a bit."
Tim Matthews 11:39
So this rule I'm essentially saying, my words, not yours but you created a rule for yourself, right? Almost like a boundary.
Stephen 11:45
Yes.
Tim Matthews 11:46
Did you share that with Jane and say, "Hey, let's not," or did you just keep it?
Stephen 11:49
I just kept it to myself and just let that go.
The other thing is that we have a tendency to talk about what we see on the news, and not necessarily in a positive way. Okay, well, I'm not going to talk about that.
But actually, what I was conscious of doing in the days leading up to it was thinking of a couple of things that I'd seen, maybe that I'd read about, topics of interest, rather than just dropping them while we're in the midst of getting the kids to bed or something like that.
I'm going to hang on to these. I can't remember the specifics, but I'm going to hang on to this when we've got some time and space, stuff to talk about, rather than sitting there racking my brains.
Tim Matthews 12:29
It's so easy to just not ask those simple questions of, "Hey, what music are you listening to right now? What podcasts are you into? What are you reading? What's been on your mind lately?"
It can go all over the place. "What would you love to achieve before the end of the year?"
Stephen 12:46
Yeah, right. It's a chance to stop.
Tim Matthews 12:48
Whatever it may be.
So, for this first date energy, the first point here is curiosity, right?
Before we started to record, you also mentioned a few other things. Let's move on to the next point. Remember it?
Stephen 13:02
You have to remind me.
Tim Matthews 13:04
You said the way that you dress, essentially.
Stephen 13:07
Absolutely, yes. Making an effort with your appearance and doing it for yourself rather than anybody else.
Tim Matthews 13:15
That's the key. Doing it because you enjoy it.
Stephen 13:17
Yes.
Tim Matthews 13:17
Because you feel good.
Stephen 13:18
That's right.
Tim Matthews 13:20
So tell us more about that. Was that a case of you choosing clothes that you feel good in, choosing clothes that you think you look good in?
Stephen 13:27
I think it was about feeling good and about feeling that you're making an effort.
Maybe "making an effort for yourself" is the right words, because I'm quite fortunate. I don't have to go to an office to work, so I can dress pretty casually most of the time.
There's a trap there, I think, to fall into just like, "Oh, it's okay, just jeans and a T-shirt."
But make an effort. Look good, smell good, get some fragrance on, shape my beard up a bit, have a good shower, just freshen up a little bit. That sounds strange.
Tim Matthews 14:04
But you are right because it's so easy when you're tight on time and you're rushing about with a busy life to just say, "Hey, let's just go now."
We get it. Look, not every time you're going to be able to bring first date energy. However, if that is a personal standard and that is something you are aiming for, and you hit it more often than not, you're in a way better position than just rolling into date night unconsciously.
But if you were to think about a first date, then yeah, obviously you'd have a shower. You'd probably be well-groomed. You would smell good.
To your point, you may have even bought some new clothes. You probably would have worked out. You probably would have been eating well during the day and not been stuffing your face full of food that makes you feel like crap.
You more than likely wouldn't have been or maybe you wouldn't have been drinking the night before. You would have probably got a good night's sleep the night before because you're showing up to this date the following day wanting to put your best foot forward.
Stephen 15:07
Yeah, there's a big one there as well that you haven't mentioned, I think, which is about making sure that you've decompressed, so you're not going into a date full of stress about business or about other things in life.
You've got yourself calm and collected and ready to be in a great frame of mind. That might have been through working out or just the ritual of getting ready to go out.
Tim Matthews 15:29
Yeah. So we've got curiosity. We've got looking good, feeling good.
Essentially, the third piece, which you've not mentioned but you've kind of touched upon within your explanation, I would say, is taking the lead, having that plan, right?
So it sounds like you had an idea around what kind of experience you wanted to have with Jane that you thought would be fun for the both of you. Hence, you went to York, you did your thing, and then afterwards, cocktail bar.
Stephen 16:04
Yeah, there's definitely something about leading, making decisions about what we're going to do.
I used to be the kind of person, that people-pleaser character, that if Jane said to me, "Oh, let's go and get some drinks. What should we get?" I would tend to say, "I don't mind. What would you like?"
That's very indecisive. It doesn't really give anything back.
Whereas saying, "Okay, right, let's go for a cocktail. Let's get a glass of wine," rather than people-pleasing, not being afraid to say what I'd like, which is an important part of my journey.
But also, that's attractive, to say, "Okay, this person knows what he wants, and I'm going to go along with that direction."
For me, it was about not having the fear that if I say, "Right, let's go to this cocktail bar after the show," if she says, "Actually, I don't want to go there," that's okay.
Tim Matthews 16:56
Because back to your point, I've no expectations.
Stephen 16:59
Yeah, no expectations. It's like, "Okay, well, we'll do something else." That's not going to stop me suggesting it.
There's definitely something about leading, about, "Okay, we're going to go here."
With Jane, she really doesn't like surprises. So when it comes to things like dates and trips and stuff like that, she's not comfortable with me saying, "I'm taking care of all of this. You just turn up." That kind of really sets her off.
So that's okay. We can share the organization, but there's still a lot of room in there for me to be able to lead.
Tim Matthews 17:29
Oh, for sure. You can give options and choices. "Do you like this or this?"
And if you are leading, you can also create a little bit of anticipation and mystery in the lead-up to the first date, right?
Which, again, is something you may not actually do on a first date necessarily because it's a first date. However, the advantage of being in a committed relationship, marriage, whatever it may be, and you know you've got this date night coming up and the other person's obviously aware of it, you can start to build that sense of anticipation in the lead-up through sending little texts or leaving little clues.
You can make it fun, make it interesting.
Which was one of the points I wanted to make because oftentimes the guys will complain about their wife not really wanting to go on a date with them, and the hard truth there typically is because she doesn't want to go on a date because the dates aren't enjoyable.
It's not that she doesn't want to go on a date; she doesn't want to go on a date with you.
Now, I'm not saying she wants to go on a date with somebody else, but the reality is, if somebody else came into her life let's say you guys broke up, not you and Jane, but this hypothetical scenario, these two people broke up that woman would more than likely be open to going on a date with another guy.
Well, why is that? Because it's going to be fun. It's going to be exciting. It's going to be new. There's going to be mystery involved. There's going to be all these things, all these boxes ticked.
Essentially, you can still do that in the committed relationship, and the more fun you make it, and the more you take the lead, and the more you bring this first date energy, the more likely it is that she's going to want to do it again.
Stephen 19:13
Definitely, yeah.
Tim Matthews 19:14
It's really simple.
So I am curious, how was Jane's response?
Stephen 19:20
I thought it was really good. She was very engaged. She smiled a lot, and one of the things I love about her is her smile.
When it's a real, genuine smile rather than just a through-gritted-teeth kind of smile
Tim Matthews
That's not a smile.
Stephen
Yeah, it's a grimace.
Tim Matthews
It's a grimace.
Stephen
But yeah, nothing went off the rails. The energy just felt really good.
The feeling that I was curious about her, so she was able to bring she fed into that.
It could have been that I was bringing this curiosity and she might have shut it down or been one-word answers or stuff like that. The fact that we had some nice, open, flowing conversations, she was asking me stuff too.
That's that feeling of being curious for her, of having something to say for myself. So I've got something interesting, that I haven't just sat there with nothing to say.
And the presence, the phone's off. You're there with that other person, and you've made an effort to turn out well.
All that combination of everything just felt like I'd had one of the best trips out we'd had.
Tim Matthews 20:34
And that's been a big desire of yours as the years have gone by.
Stephen 20:37
Yeah.
Tim Matthews 20:38
So it's great to be on that date with her and have it feel like she wants to be there with you as well.
Stephen 20:43
Definitely, yeah.
Tim Matthews 20:44
There's nothing worse than being with someone you love and feeling like they're there out of a sense of obligation.
Stephen 20:51
Definitely, yeah.
Fortunately, because I guess like a lot of women, Jane is very honest and frank, and if she's not feeling it, she'll tell me.
I'll get that definitely quite direct feedback.
Tim Matthews 21:08
I'm sure you will. Yeah, I'm sure you will.
So, two things I want to leave the listeners with.
The first one, guys, this reminds me, we have a cheat sheet, a date night cheat sheet. So if you want to get access to the date night cheat sheet, just email in "date night" to VIP that's very important person at thepowerfulman.com, and then one of the team will get that cheat sheet across to you.
The second thing that I'd like to share with the listeners is essentially a framework that I can hear come through in what it is that you're saying.
There's essentially three steps, the way that I see it, as it relates to you really bringing this first date energy.
The first one is preparation. That goes to the rule that you made: "Hey, I'm not going to talk about the news. I'm not going to talk about logistics."
It goes to the fact that you came up with ideas. "I'm going to hold this thing back. I'm going to share that on date night. I'm going to ask her about music that she's listening to. I'm going to ask her about the podcasts."
Then also within the preparation, you've got, "Hey, I'm going to set myself up for success because I'm going to have worked out. I'm going to have eaten well."
Tim Matthews 22:18
I'm going to put my best foot forward.
Now, within that, obviously, you've got taking the lead as well.
Then after preparation, you've got the presentation, right? How you actually show up on the date night, because that first half an hour or so is going to be key. It's going to set the tone.
It's either going to set the date up or pull the date down.
So the energy that you then present with, how you smell, how you dress, do you feel good, all those things.
So the second piece is the presentation.
Then the third piece is in the practice, because in order for that date to go well and for you to bring the first date energy, you can't be attached to the outcome.
Stephen 22:59
Not at all, no.
Tim Matthews 23:00
You've got to be able to let go.
If you're attached, you're not going to be open to the idea of the cocktail bar. If you're attached, you're not even going to mention the cocktail bar.
So the energy piece and the presence piece within that practice is absolutely key.
Stephen 23:17
Yeah, totally.
Tim Matthews 23:18
So you've got preparation, presentation, practice.
Stephen 23:22
I would just add one thing to that, which is just remember to have fun.
Tim Matthews 23:26
That's the key. It's supposed to be a fun thing.
As guys, we like frameworks, don't we? "Give me the framework: one, two, three, boom, boom, boom."
All of that is useless if you're out of fun.
Stephen 23:36
Yeah, just be you. Be yourself. Be fun.
Tim Matthews 23:39
Check you out saying that and embodying that. I love it. After all these years, it's epic.
So, guys, thanks for joining us for another episode of the TPM Show, and we'll see you next time.