19 min read
Episode # 1162
How do you know when it's time to leave your marriage? Or when it's time to fight for it?
It's one of the hardest questions a man can ask himself, especially when the connection is gone, communication feels impossible, and you've started wondering if life would be easier with someone else.
In this episode, Doug Holt and Christopher Hansen have an honest conversation about what really happens when a marriage reaches this point. They share personal experiences, lessons from coaching thousands of married businessmen, and the two simple questions every man should answer before making a decision he can't take back.
You'll hear why the grass isn't always greener, how emotional distance slowly builds over time, what women are often looking for in a relationship, and why working on yourself first can completely change the direction of your marriage. They also talk about why doing the work is worth it, whether your marriage is restored or you ultimately decide to move on.
If you've been asking yourself, "Should I stay or should I leave?" this episode will give you practical guidance to help you make that decision with confidence instead of emotion.
Get your free copy of A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It and discover practical steps you can start using today to rebuild connection and become the man your family needs. Just cover the shipping, and we'll send you the book.
Transcription
Christopher Hansen 0:00I start to write the story that life will be easier.
Doug Holt 0:02Why is this not working? It should be easy.
Christopher Hansen 0:06Monday morning anniversary. I mean, no gifts, no nothing.
Doug Holt 0:12The distance between my wife and I grew more and more.
Christopher Hansen 0:15And she was like, "This, I think, is the best anniversary that I've ever had."
Doug Holt 0:19And you reap the rewards, and it all starts with asking that question: Should I stay or should I go?
Christopher Hansen 0:24You know, my wife and I were having challenges in our relationship.
Doug Holt 0:26He and his wife separated, decide you know it's not going to work out.
Doug Holt 0:40Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of The TPM Show. Today we're going to talk about something that is probably in the top 10 most frequently asked questions I, as a coach, have gotten in the past 10 years around married businessmen and their marriages. And today I have a very special guest, Christopher Hansen, is with us. Christopher has been on the show many times, and he also is one of the individuals that a lot of guys talk to when they're interested in finding out more about programs like TPM. Chris, thanks for being here, man.
Christopher Hansen 1:12Yeah, thanks for having me back, Doug. It's been a minute.
Doug Holt 1:14It has, it has, it has. So this topic, right? This is one when I think of the top 10 frequently asked questions, or the things that I get asked as a coach, and I'm sure all the other coaches do too we've had thousands of men come through our programs over the last 10 years, and one of the questions I get asked often is a variant of: how do I know when it's just time to leave? When when the marriage or the relationship has just run its course, it's not going to work out. You know, fish or cut bait.
Christopher Hansen 1:47Yeah, for sure. I hear that question all the time. I would say a lot of guys, it's the thing that keeps them from from moving forward and jumping into something like working with TPM because it's confusing, they don't know. They're scared. They're they're not sure what their path forward is. And I mean, I've been in that situation. In my mind, when I'm in that space or have been in that space, I start to write the story that life will be easier. Oh yeah, over here. Yeah, right? Yeah. So I mean that's just me, but you know I hear that a lot from guys. Yeah, and I think there's a there's some inner work that that has to be done to, you know, really identify and answer that question. I'm sure you have some some thoughts on on that. I think you've probably been in a similar situation.
Doug Holt 2:39With Erin and I, I was definitely in that situation, right? We were going through our crap in our marriage. TPM didn't exist. There wasn't a program like this, and the books and things available or podcasts didn't speak to guys like me, business owners. I wasn't a therapy guy. I grew up with all boys in my house, like a guy's guy, if you will, and so I couldn't figure it out. And for me, what was interesting is like, "Hey, why is this not working? It should be easy, right?" It used to be easy, fun, free. The girl at work, she laughs at my jokes still. When I go down and play I used to play a lot of beach volleyball, right? the girls down there giggle with me, you know, flirt. "Why is it not my wife? Has this run its course? Gosh, it'd be so much easier with Susie, Jenny, or any you name the name because they seemingly love me. And you know, if I was with them, we'd be intimate every day, laughing all day, right? Be blissful." You're smiling because you've never had these thoughts.
Christopher Hansen 3:44Oh man, you're gonna play out the same pattern with Susie and Jenny, and you know... oh yeah, yeah, for sure. So I I mean, at the end of the day, what do you want, right? Do you do you want... what are you looking for?
Doug Holt 3:57Well, well, me, I'm happily married.
Christopher Hansen 4:00But I'm speaking to the guys out there, like, you know what?
Doug Holt 4:02Yeah, so I actually have a process I go running the guys through, but I also want to set the scene a little bit deeper before we give guys I'll give you them the answer to this, because I've I've addressed this hundreds of times, if not more than hundreds of times, this exact question. And I think what's going on in that in that world, is there's been what we call mud on the glass, where the husband and wife can't see each other anymore, and we deal mostly with business owners or C-suite executives. So these are hardworking men; they're driven men, and they come home, and it's distance. They get the Ice Queen is what their version of the story... now she's got a different version because I've talked to a lot of the wives, too, but I'll lay out his.
And so he's just kind of like, "You know what? It's just easier to bite my tongue and suck it up. I'll go do the dishes. I'll do something." And a lot of guys go into nice guy mode. They try to overcompensate by being a nicer guy, because if I'm nicer, Chris, then she'll love and respect me again. Then she'll look up to me. When that doesn't happen, maybe if you buy her the vacation, you buy her the new ring, you take her on the trip, you get the new car smell back for a couple days maybe a week if you're lucky then it goes right back to that distance.
So the men, because they're driven men, turn back into work, right? And and I did the same thing. I mean, I ended up with multiple companies because I was getting fulfilled. I was successful in the business, and people were, you know, were telling me nice things. "Oh, you're so smart." But I wasn't hearing that at home. At least I didn't think I was hearing it at home. So I would turn more back into the business, and that's where I would get my accolades. And since I spent more time in the business, the distance between my wife and I grew more and more. But I was also spending more time with the Jennys, Sherrys, and other people and other women, who also I mean, flirting's easy, right? That's the easy stuff. It's the day-to-day living that's hard. So the fantasy world is easy to play in for both parties.
Christopher Hansen 6:02Yeah, for sure. Most women would... I mean, they married you because they would live under a bridge in a box with you. Like, that's where women, you know, come into a relationship most of them, yep, come into a marriage from. Like, yeah, the the stuff is nice, but that's just icing on top of you. "I want you," right? And if they don't have you, none of the other shit matters.
Doug Holt 6:24Well, see, that's where us guys get tripped up. And again, I'll tell guys exactly how to figure this out, but I've talked to so many women about this, and guys. My story was: "I'm doing this all for them, right? I'm building this empire for them." Meanwhile, I haven't been asked for anything, right? The great story...
So Tim he was talking... so Tim, co-owner of TPM and a great coach, he was talking to his partner, and they've been together going on 11 years. And she goes, "No, no, no, you don't get it. I'm with you despite you owning a company. Like, that's the worst part about you."
And so he's like, "What? What do you mean? I'm building this."
She's like, "No, you're building this for you, but you know..."
And it was the same thing for me. Erin's like, "I don't need all these material things. I don't need all that. I just want you more, right?" And not quantity quality.
Christopher Hansen 7:22Yep, I'll tell you a story. My 14th wedding anniversary was Monday, and we've just had a lot going on in life. Just, you know, kind of from every angle, just stuff happening. And Sunday rolled around. I'm like, "Shit, man, its anniversary is tomorrow, and I have done no planning." Usually, I try to you know, we'll go on a little trip just the two of us, something, you know, sometimes it's much bigger than that but like, something... I had nothing.
And came into Monday morning, I talked to to my wife and just kind of said, "Hey, you know, maybe we celebrate here in a couple weeks, we'll go do something, but just right now..." And she's like, "Yeah, tell me, whatever."
So, Monday morning anniversary. I mean, no gift, no nothing. Woke up, went through my morning routine. She sleeps in. Came in, woke her up, and she was crying and not because of anything that I had done, but just... she was just emotional.
And I said, "Okay, hey, look, I know I've got two hours of stuff I got to go do. I'm going to put that on pause because I can handle that later in the day. Let's just sit here and talk."
And we sat in bed and talked for those two hours, and tears for both of us just flowing, right? Just life, joy, sadness, just all the stuff. And went, did my work, got everything that I needed to take care of for the day, and then just took her and just walked. We didn't go anywhere special. We didn't do anything special. We just hung out.
And at the end of the day, I came in again with guilt and shame into this day. And at the end of the day, we sat down, we had dinner, and just talked. At the end of the night, we were doing our gratitudes, and she was like, "This, I think, is the best anniversary that I've ever had." And it had nothing to do with trips to Jamaica or, you know, gifts or diamonds or any of that. It was just like the two of us in truth, in emotion, in connection. And it was like so powerful because that's that's all she wanted. Yeah.
Doug Holt 9:38And that's what most women want. They want the authentic you, which you provided, right? And what's happened for most couples most guys are listening to this is them and their wives have become so disconnected, and they've put on such a mask of walking on eggshells, not sure what to say or do kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation that they can't even get to that level. Going getting their wife to go for a walk with them, one, doesn't seem fun, probably. Two, she's just going to say no anyway, so screw it. Why do it?
So when it comes to this idea of, "Hey, should I stay or should I go?" right, that's kind of the way I look at this. Like, hey, the first question I ask the guy, I say, "Do are you in love with your wife, yes or no?" And the guy... some guys want him in hot. "Am I in love?" And most guys will go, "Yeah, I'm in love with her."
"Okay, do you love her? Like, is there still love there?"
And if the answer is no to both of those questions, I would highly consider exiting, right? And and personally, just because it's the person I am, do it in a respectful manner, and sit down, have a conversation about, "Hey, this is not working for me. I'm going to assume it's not working for you. It's time to leave."
Now, I've had that conversation many times, but I would say, Chris, 90% of the time when I ask that those questions I get a yes to at least one of those two, if not both. And I say, if there's a yes to both of those, it's time to double down and do the work on the relationship.
Christopher Hansen 11:07You and I had this conversation.
Doug Holt 11:09I know.
Christopher Hansen 11:09Like three or four months ago?
Doug Holt 11:11I have this conversation a lot.
Christopher Hansen 11:12Yeah. Well, I mean, and I say that to illustrate that, you know, the story I just told about my anniversary... I and I even get emotional thinking about it. It was it was amazing. It's great. That connection in my relationship, that wasn't that wasn't handed to me. Yeah, that took a lot of work over a lot of years to to be able to connect on that level. And as recently as, you know, months ago, you know, my wife and I were having challenges in our relationship. Yeah, answered that question. You know, and I'll be candid. If can I? Yeah. My answer to that question was: "Are you in love with your wife?"
Doug Holt 11:53I want to buy you a gift. Look, if your marriage is struggling and let's be real, every marriage struggles at some point, but yours is struggling where you've lost that love, admiration, respect I want to help you. I want to buy you a copy of the book that I wrote, A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. In here, I've distilled over eight years of programs that we've developed at TPM to help men just like you save their marriages without talking about it. There's no fluff, no BS. It's an action plan that you can start using today to actually save your marriage and bring that love and respect back into your family, back into your house. You deserve it. Look, all I ask is you pay the postage, you pay the shipping. I'll buy the book for you. That way, you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio and get your copy now.
Christopher Hansen 12:46Yeah, no, doesn't feel like it right now, yeah. "Do you love your wife?" No question. Absolutely love my wife. Yeah. It was like, "Okay, cool. Then we go do the work."
Doug Holt 12:55Yeah. And the worst-case scenario here I want to touch back on a couple of those things. Thanks for being honest about that. I never want to bring up somebody else's stuff, so unless they volunteer it... is the worst-case scenario for the guys listening is when you go do the work. If it doesn't work out, you still get to hang your head really high and walk around with a love and respect for yourself. Your kids are also going to notice, and you can walk around saying, "I gave it everything I had."
I know a lot of men because, again, we've been doing this at TPM for over 10 years. Thousands of of guys have come through the programs, and it doesn't always work out, right? It's just the name of the game. Guys have had affairs. There's been all I mean, you name it, we've seen it. There's nothing we haven't seen happen. And within that, the guys who do the work on themselves and in their marriage come out of this. Go, "You know what? I did everything I possibly could." They're closer to their kids, usually.
I was talking to a guy last week. He's like, "My kids and I are better than ever." He and his wife separated. Decide, you know, it's not going to work out. Fast forward, they're actually reconciling, which is a cool story. Because even though they separated, she saw that he was continuing to do the work without her, and she goes, "Okay, this is legit. What he's doing is legitimate, and I want a piece of that."
It's like a stock, right? I always I say this, but if I'm investing in the stock market, which I do, I want stocks that are going to go up. Your wife does, too. I mean, so do I. I want my wife's stock to go up. But if a woman sees a man working on himself, that is like a man's stock increasing in the market, right? In the sexual marketplace, as they call it. And so that is really alluring for women. That that sparks some interest.
It's also like, "Hey, wait a minute, Chris doesn't..." I know you always have, but so I'll use you as an example. But, "Hey, what's Chris doing over there?" right? He doesn't always get up and do a morning routine. All of a sudden, he is. All of a sudden, he's he's taking time and noticing me more. And what happens for a woman a lot of times, and happens to men, too, is she's going, "Wait a minute! If I know Chris is working out now, he's doing his morning routine, he's doing the stuff that matters, he's taking care of himself internally and externally... shit, all the other women are going to notice this, too." A little competitive edge creeps in, sure, and it it really allows the guys to decide to double down.
It's the old analogy, as you know, and I've been in this situation, too, Chris. Is you have one foot on the dock, one foot on the boat, and eventually that boat starts to leave. And you've seen me we worked out together. I'm not very flexible, so I got to choose real quick, or I'm going to be in the water, of which side I'm on. And I always feel better when I'm two feet in something versus one foot in, one foot out.
Christopher Hansen 15:55Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I love the... you know, if just simply breathing life into yourself, right? That's infectious. Your wife wants to see that. She wants to... I want to say, see it she wants to feel that.
Doug Holt 16:09Yeah, yeah, 100%. You know, regardless of what you're into or what you're doing, she... I think it's David Deida. I read his book, Way of the Superior Man. My 20s, maybe. So I'm 49 now today, and I remember this idea or this concept that caught me. I remember exactly where I was reading the book I was on the beach in Santa Barbara and it was this concept that your wife doesn't want to be your number one. She wants to be your number two. She wants your purpose, passion of for life to be number one, yeah.
And that was a really interesting concept for me, especially at that young age. To be like, "Huh, I always thought she wanted to be my number one," you know? But it made sense. And now, fast forward now, and coaching for as long as I have, 100% she wants to be your number two. Now, she may not know that, but she wants, as you say, breathe life into it. She wants to see your vigor going after it. And it doesn't matter as much of what it is, as long as it's what you want to do and what you're choosing to do. She wants to see you going for your purpose, to see that energy and that that vigor within side of you.
Christopher Hansen 17:14Yeah, yeah, 100%. I want to... I love hearing that there's a reconciliation happening in the the story that you told.
Doug Holt 17:22Yeah, 100%, man. I don't want to say the guy's name, but what I thought was super cool between this guy... he was like, "Should I stay or should I go?" And his wife decided, "Hey, we should separate. Like, this is not going to work out." And because he continued to do the work... this gentleman has two daughters. He and his daughters super close. Wife decided not to do the work. Her his daughters, not as close to the wife anymore, right? They recognize what was going on. Kids are smart, man. His kids are a little bit older, but they're smart, and he just kept trudging along, trudging along, doing the work on himself, growing himself, working on his relationships with his daughters, being the man that he really is with his soon-to-be ex-wife.
And she called him up for lunch, and you know, just a normal lunch kind of get-together. And he assumed this was going to be, "Hey, let's coordinate the kids, logistics," you know, those kinds of things. And she's like, "I want to I want to work this out. Like, I'm really impressed with what you're doing and how you've done it."
And to his credit, he said, "Hey, great! I'd love to, and I have some new boundaries and some new requirements for you. You need to start doing your edge of the work and working on it." And she agreed to it, to her to her credit.
And I see this happen a lot, and it's really that sitting on the fence: "Should I stay or should I go?" If you're in that quandary, you have one foot on the dock and one foot on the boat. And the problem that I've seen over this last decade of coaching men for TPM is men don't realize when that boat's leaving. Women know much quicker. They they have the frigging schedule, right? And they're usually the one with the foot on the gas. And men don't figure it out till almost too late.
And so, if you're listening to this, guys, and you're wondering, "Should I stay or should I go?" your wife knows you're thinking this. Guarantee it. Two, she's been thinking about it longer than you have I can guarantee that as well. And you need to make a decision. And if it's... unless you know for sure that you need to go, ask yourself these two questions: Are you in love with her, yes or no? If the answer regardless... if the answer is yes, move forward. Do a program like The Activation Method you know, it's it's a shorter program, it's eight weeks. It's helped thousands upon thousands of families reconcile. Or do another program, whatever. I just haven't done any of the other programs; I can't speak to them.
Or ask yourself... if it's no, then ask yourself: do you still love her? And if the answer is yes to that, then you owe it to yourself and to her to do anything possible possible to see if you can salvage it. You don't... it doesn't have to be wait 10 years. Maybe it is, but do something today so you can walk around with your head held high, knowing, "You know what? I gave it everything I could. Didn't work out; wasn't meant to be."
And the best part of that, as you know, Chris, is if guys end up in a different relationship, as you said earlier, they've got new tools, skills, techniques, things they can bring into the next relationship that are going to help them and serve them well.
Christopher Hansen 20:27Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, they're coming to that relationship again with their help their head held high and confident, and, yeah, you know, grounded in themselves. And, yeah.
Doug Holt 20:36Yeah. And what a what a better story if you did separate, to be able to tell this next amazing woman, like, "I did everything I could to salvage that relationship. I tried. I invested time, money, influence, everything I could do to try to salvage it." The next woman's going to think, "Okay, cool. He's at least going to work on it with me, too," yeah. Versus, "I just bailed; just wasn't working."
Christopher Hansen 20:59Right. Yeah.
Doug Holt 21:01No woman's gonna think, "Oh, that's sexy."
Christopher Hansen 21:03You're moving down the the woman ladder that...
Doug Holt 21:08Quickly you're gonna be lucky to pick a ones and twos, right, down that scheme. And so, yeah, again, one of the most frequently asked questions we get asked. And again, guys, if it's yes to either of those questions, you owe it to yourself, you owe it to your kids, and you owe it to your wife, quite honestly, to double down on it.
And people say, "Okay, how can I save my marriage without my wife doing the work?" That's another question. I'll just add that onto it. The men listening to a show like this are influential in their worlds, and Chris, you know this as as well as anybody, when we show up as the leaders of our families and start to do the work without judgment, without expectation, we just start to show up as the men that we are, that we know ourselves to be that, hey, your wife knows you can be. They start to follow suit.
The thing I hear the most from guys shocking is we do a thing called the Alpha Rise and Shine, right? It's a very specific morning routine. When the men start doing this, they'll they'll start saying like, "Oh my God, my wife didn't want to tell me, but I found out. Like, when I leave the house, she starts to do a morning routine. She's dusted off the treadmill. She's done this, you know. She's starting to do the things. She's starting to meditate. I found a book of meditation. She's never done anything like this, Doug," right? Or whatever it is.
That's because you're leading, guys. You are leading in your home. You're taking... it's not taking the power back, but you're reclaiming your own inner power. And she's choosing to follow your leadership. And the the reality is, the stuff that we teach, you're just doing the best things for yourself and for your family, and who doesn't want to be a part of that?
Christopher Hansen 22:43Yeah. Well, you dictate the energy in your home. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's easy for guys to fall into the trap of thinking they don't. "Yeah, I don't have any power here. I don't have any control here." It's like, well, that is the thing that's dictating the energy in the house. They navigated it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So when you start to command that energy in the house, and you start to show up as the man that you know you are she believes you are, the kids expect you to be... yeah, the kids believe you are yeah, that it all shifts.
Doug Holt 23:14It completely... I mean, I could sit here and tell 100 stories off the top of my head of men who have turned around relationships that are either on divorce or separation, even, and have marriages and relationships unimaginable. I mean, you go to our website... somebody wrote in and said that we had all actors in our testimonials. And you're going to laugh because if you look at these guys, you can look them up on the internet. These aren't guys that want to be on camera, but it's changed their lives so much that they ask to be on camera or be willing to.
Christopher Hansen 23:47Yeah.
Doug Holt 23:48But they're right there. They're real guys like you and I. You know, Fourth of July is coming up. I'm going to a barbecue. You're probably going to a barbecue.
Christopher Hansen 23:54Yeah.
Doug Holt 23:55You know, we got family stuff. I got little kids at summer camp right now. We're real family guys who put in the work, and you reap the rewards. And it all starts with asking that question: "Should I stay or should I go?" And whatever the answer is, get both feet either on the boat and leave, or both feet on the dock and stand firmly.
Christopher Hansen 24:14Yep, and do the work regardless.
Doug Holt 24:17Do the work regardless. Work never ends. Awesome, brother. Love having you back on the show. It's great to see you.
Christopher Hansen 24:23Yeah, thanks, man. I'm happy to be here. Appreciate it.
Doug Holt 24:26Gentlemen, as I often say, in the moment of insight, take massive action. Right now, my call to you is: Where are you? Do you have one foot in the boat, one foot on the dock, and the boat's starting to leave? Again, I know most of you guys you're you're you're not yogi masters. You can't be that flexible. You have to make a decision, and if you're not sure what decision to make, then jump on the dock, plant both feet firmly, do the work necessary, right?
Don't go from one podcast to another. I used to do that, right? It's like educational masturbation. Put in the work. Actually do the tangible to get the result. We have a community with thousands of men strong men just like you who are doing the work, and it's absolutely free.
So, if you want more information on how you can get in there, or more information about The Activation Method program, simply email into VIP@thepowerfulman.com. That's a simple thing you can do right here in the moment no strings attached. You can just have a conversation with a gentleman just like Chris, and just see what's the best option for you. But whatever you do, keep your head high and make a decision. We'll see you next time on The TPM Show.
