Episode #1174
When a man abdicates his power in a marriage, he unconsciously shifts the entire cognitive load of the relationship, family, and household operations onto his wife. Over time, this dynamic erodes emotional safety and leaves a couple feeling like roommates with rings. Reclaiming leadership in your home isn't about forcing compliance or pulling off grand performative gestures. It requires consistent daily action, radical personal responsibility, and systematically removing operational stress from your partner's shoulders.
In this coaching session, Doug Holt works directly with men navigating real-time challenges in leadership, marriage, and personal evolution. The conversation opens with Andy, a husband whose wife requested a separation after five years of passive abdication. Doug breaks down why sticking to daily routines without expecting immediate praise is essential for re-establishing emotional safety. Instead of hiding past mistakes or explaining away behaviors, a man must call out the elephant in the room with total ownership. When communication breaks down, a leader needs to stay grounded rather than reacting defensively.
The discussion shifts to Brandon, a high performer learning how to transition from thriving in chaos to finding purpose in peace. Doug highlights how holding onto an old identity rooted in crisis can create artificial instability, encouraging men to redefine peace on their own terms. Chris then brings forward the challenge of remaining an unflappable lighthouse when a partner experiences sudden emotional outbursts. Doug emphasizes the power of curious inquiry, emotional availability, and building proactive communication strategies during calm moments rather than waiting for fires to break out.
Finally, the session addresses critical life transitions from two practical angles. Andy shares his progress stepping out of divorce into dating, where Doug outlines the importance of shedding nice guy tendencies, maintaining authentic confidence, and adopting an interviewing mindset. Gordon seeks guidance on maintaining relationship momentum while scaling a demanding real estate business. Doug provides practical frameworks on prioritization, bringing a spouse into collaboration on life decisions, and taking full ownership of family logistics to protect connection through every season of growth. Men looking to master these core leadership habits can deepen their progress through The Activation Method.
TIMESTAMP CHAPTERS
00:00 - Introduction and Live AMA Overview
01:00 - Overcoming Abdication of Power and Roommate Dynamic in Marriage
02:40 - Building Emotional Safety and Trust Through Daily Consistency
04:53 - Calling Out the Elephant in the Room Without Defensiveness
09:40 - Taking Cognitive Load Off Your Wife to Demonstrate Leadership
13:38 - Rewriting Your Story from Thriving in Chaos to Finding Purpose in Peace
20:44 - Remaining a Grounded Lighthouse During Emotional Storms
22:45 - Mid-Episode Resource Highlight
28:35 - Transitioning After Divorce and Dating Without Falling into Nice Guy Mode
36:30 - Balancing Business Ambition While Prioritizing Your Marriage
45:09 - Calling Out the Elephant and Accepting Support
RELATED EPISODES
- Leadership in Marriage: The Importance of Masculine Strength
- Woman's POV: Change She Can't Believe-Decoding Distrust in Transformation
- Unlocking True Intimacy: Why Her Trust and Safety Are the Keys
- Unlocking the Secrets to Trust and Connection in Marriage
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
What does it mean when a man abdicates his power in a marriage?
Abdicating power occurs when a man takes a back seat in the relationship, stops taking decisive action, and leaves the operational, emotional, and mental planning of the household to his wife. Over time, this increases her cognitive load, creates resentment, and breaks down emotional safety.
How can a husband rebuild trust and emotional safety with his wife?
Rebuilding trust requires consistent action over time without performative expectations. A husband must stick to his daily routines, take radical responsibility for his own actions without blaming his partner, call out obvious issues directly, and actively take charge of family planning and household logistics.
What is cognitive load in a relationship?
Cognitive load refers to the ongoing mental effort required to plan, remember, execute, and manage family operations, such as schedules, trips, appointments, and household decisions. Relieving a spouse's cognitive load means taking full ownership of tasks from planning to execution rather than simply asking how to help.
How should a man handle emotional outbursts from his wife?
A man should act as a grounded lighthouse, remaining steady and emotionally available rather than reacting, defending, or analyzing. By asking curious, empathetic questions during the moment and establishing proactive communication strategies during calm times, he creates a safe environment for connection.
How can a man avoid falling into "Nice Guy mode" when dating after separation?
A man can avoid Nice Guy mode by remaining unapologetically authentic, maintaining strong personal standards, and recognizing his own value. Rather than seeking approval or trying to prove he is safe, he should adopt an interviewing mindset to determine if a prospective partner aligns with his vision for life.
Get your free copy of Doug Holt's A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. Doug covers the cost of the book. You only cover shipping and postage.
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Transcription
Andy 0:00Trying to be consistent, trying to do the work... I've abdicated all of my power to her.
Doug Holt 0:05The good news for you is you've kind of woken up.
Andy 0:09
She doesn't feel emotionally safe or that I can be trusted.
Doug Holt 0:13How do we make her feel safe?
Andy 0:15Sometimes we need that chaos to justify who we are.
Doug Holt 0:19She may love it, but that loving it is going to scare her.
Chris 0:22
Two out of 10 times, he reacts.
Doug Holt 0:26The idea is we get to drop the stories, right, and then write a new story.
Good to see you guys here. Awesome, guys. Well, this is going to be a live AMA. I am going to ask you guys to mute yourselves, and then I'll bring you guys on one by one. Just raise your hand if you have a question. I know some of you guys are here just to hang out, and that's cool, too.
Andy 1:00The marriage is struggling. My wife wants to separate. We're basically, like you call, "roommates with rings." I've read your book thank you for presenting it. I've been pouring through it, going through the podcasts, going through the ARS every morning. I really hate those cold showers.
Trying to be consistent, trying to do the work. I know I've abdicated all of my power to her, and I just need to reclaim it. And that's probably the biggest hurdle I have, because she doesn't feel emotionally safe or that I can be trusted.
Doug Holt 1:41Well, first of all, man, I'm sorry you're going through that. I've been there; I understand that position.
The good news for you is you've kind of woken up, if you will, right? And that is incredibly important, Andy, because most men don't they never wake up, if you will.
So I'll address these kind of as separate issues, if you will. Safety is the first thing. That's the underlying current that we need to establish: How do we make her feel safe? And part of that is the trust, right? So part of the atmosphere we're looking for is going to be the trust.
One thing we can do to build trust is starting to stick to your routines, which you are. I get the cold showers suck. You know, I think that's a sanity check, right, if you're loving the cold showers, unless you've been doing it for a long time or you've just embraced the suck.
So, how do we get her to trust you again? That's going to be repetition; it's going to take time. How long have you guys been together, Andy?
Andy 2:40We've been together 16 years.
Doug Holt 2:44Okay. And when would you say you abdicated your responsibility or your power to her?
Andy 2:49I think the biggest shift was about five years ago.
Doug Holt 2:53Okay. So for about five years, you've been living in this paradigm where you've kind of... sounds like to me you've kind of been the nice guy taking the backseat and just giving away power. Okay, cool.
So as you can imagine, for five years she's got this understanding of Andy, of who Andy is. And now you read the book, you got some ideas, you're like, "Oh crap, I've got a roommate with a ring, what do I do now?"
So now we get to retrain her and I mean that in a loving way on who Andy is, and the first thing that she's going to need to see is consistency. So the fact that she's still there is a good sign, by the way. And so that consistency is going to be the thing.
Now, when she starts to see Andy doing his Alpha Rise and Shine, or doing his decompression, or Andy practicing The Hidden Motives Technique, or Andy starts to be more decisive in the relationship, she's going to take notice. And she may love it, but that loving it is going to scare her, typically.
And the reason being, Andy, is she's going to be scared: "Well, if I open my heart again to Andy, is he just going to go back to the old version? Am I going to get hurt again?"
So the way this typically shows up is through a series of safety tests. We used to call them shit tests; we now call them safety tests, because that's really what it is. It's a woman asking, "Am I safe emotionally not physically, but am I emotionally safe with this man in this moment?"
And so she is going to test you, because she's going to be scared. You haven't given her enough reasons yet, and enough proof, that you are the man that you know yourself to be, and I know you to be. I can see it loud and clear. Does that make sense?
Andy 4:51Yes.
Doug Holt 4:53We guys are doers, right? So theories are all good, but we need action steps to do.
So what I want you to do is stick to your routines, and do your routines without expectation. And what I mean by that is: don't announce that you're going to go out for a morning walk, don't announce that you're all of a sudden working out, don't announce that you've done the dishes or whatever else it is. That's all performative, and all that shows her is that you're doing something with an expectation of getting something back. I'm not saying you're doing that, but a lot of guys do. It's kind of the boy inside of us: "Look, Mom, I'm doing good!" And she doesn't want to be with the boy she wants to be with the man, Andy.
So we're going to stick with our routines. We're going to do them regularly. What I want you to do is call the elephant out in the room. What's your wife's name, Andy?
Andy 5:48Nicole.
Doug Holt 5:50Nicole. So that might look like something like, "Hey, Nicole, I just kind of realized that I've really abdicated all responsibility in our marriage to you, and I've taken a backseat. I've got to imagine that's put you in a position of having to take the cognitive load of our marriage and our family, which is not something I ever wanted. I just didn't realize I was doing it, and I want to let you know now that I'm actually opening my eyes to see it, things are going to change. And what I want is for us to have a marriage..."
I mean, you can insert whatever you want I'm making this up as I go, Andy, so use your own words, don't copy mine... "But what I want is for us to have a marriage where it's a true partnership. We're activated as a couple, not two independent people living under the same roof. I love you, and I'm going to work on me."
So what I did there is I never blamed her for one thing.
Andy 6:50Right.
Doug Holt 6:51I just took radical responsibility for Andy and Andy's side of the street.
What also happens is... this is what I did I'll just say this and coaching thousands of guys at this point, a lot of us do this. But I'm not going to say you do this, Andy. But we discover something like, "Oh man, I was a jerk all this weekend," and we don't bring it up. We kind of hope nobody remembers, right? We hope nobody else notices, so we don't talk about it.
And that's the exact opposite thing I want you to do, Andy. I want you to call out the elephant in the room, because she knows, right, that you've kind of taken a backseat in the relationship. Is that fair?
Andy 7:28Yes, absolutely.
Doug Holt 7:29What she doesn't know is that you have the emotional awareness to know that. You calling it out doesn't make it better, but at least she understands that you're at least smart enough emotionally to see it, and that's a big thing for women. It's a big thing for men, too, but a big thing for women and their partners: "Okay, at least he gets it."
And then from there, eventually, that's when you start courting her again when you get to that point. Take her out on a date. Maybe that date is, "Hey, let's just... do you want to go for a walk?" My wife and I do a thing we call "Red Chair Dates." We have these red Adirondack chairs in our backyard. We go sit out there, have a cup of coffee, glass of wine, whatever. And it could be as simple as that doesn't have to be an extravagant, "You're taking her to the Bahamas" date. Just, "Hey, let's go for a walk."
Now, the key thing with that, Andy, though, is if you say, "Hey, let's go for a walk," and she says no, you go for a walk anyway, because that's what Andy wants to do. Go for it.
Andy 8:33I know it's not a cure, I know it's not a fix. It's just something we've had planned for over a year now. As we... in a few weeks, actually, we're going to Disney World.
Doug Holt 8:42Awesome!
Andy 8:43So that might be a setting where I can court her a little bit.
Doug Holt 8:48Yep, and you can do it today. You've been 16 years, did you say?
Andy 8:52Yes.
Doug Holt 8:53Awesome. Let's go back 16 years ago, right? Got Andy there. He's single, right before... you know, just meets her. Were you courting her? Were you shooting little text messages well, maybe not text messages back then, but were you shooting her little messages or little things, leaving her notes or letting her know you're thinking about her? Was it fun and exciting?
Andy 9:14Yes.
Doug Holt 9:16There you go.
Andy 9:16I need to find that again. That's part two. Okay. Okay.
Doug Holt 9:20And here's what I also want you to do. Your Disney World's awesome, and it's a huge trip. How many kids do you have? I assume you're going with kids.
Andy 9:27I've got an older daughter that's married and lives in another state, but we have a 12-year-old son that lives with us.
Doug Holt 9:34
Okay. And is he going?
Andy 9:36Yes, him and his best friend. So there's going to be two kids.
Doug Holt 9:40Sweet. Here's what you're gonna do: you're gonna help plan not only plan, but also execute on the preparation for that trip. Most men abdicate all that responsibility to their wives. What clothes is he packing? What's his friend bringing? Have you talked to his friend's parents? You know, are the tickets printed out, or you know, whatever you get the idea.
Don't ask, "How can I help?" That's the worst thing you can ask somebody. What you want to do is just: I see it, I do it. Okay, you know what, right? You know what needs to be done, and this is how you start taking back the responsibility. But it's also how you release your wife's cognitive load.
The doing is the easy part; it's the remembering and thinking and holding all of the operations that is the hard part. Kids' schedules, permission slips, doctor's appointments that's the stuff that wears and grinds on the primary home caregiver, which usually, typically falls on the wife. I'm not sure your situation, but it typically does.
You eventually want to divide it, right? Like, you know, eventually you want to have rules in your house. Like, I always take care of the finances; my wife doesn't have to worry about it, right? I just own it. I tell her about it, I share it all with her, I don't hide anything.
But for a trip like this, if you could take the leadership role: "Hey, I got a packing list for my 12-year-old." You can use ChatGPT or something and print it out and hand it to him and say, "Hey, bud, this is what you're going to be packing. I need you to get all this stuff. And for your buddy, here's another list for him. Make sure you all have this. I have the suitcases out for you. I need you packed four days ahead of time."
Also, look... and then you can tell your wife, "Hey, while we're there, I've already looked into the tickets at Disney World. You can get an Express Pass..." You get the idea. Start thinking ahead, because that's what a leader does.
Andy 11:42The packing it's easy enough, I can do that.
Doug Holt 11:45I'm just using this as for everybody, because everybody else that's listening to this isn't thinking Disney World. They're thinking whatever else they got going on in their world.
I want you to think of what's next. What's the next thing that probably has to be done, and do that. "We're going with friends. Hey, check it out, in Disney World there's this really cool..." Because Disney World and Disneyland have all these secret things. Do a little research, or ask ChatGPT, or post in the community, right? You're in a community with 2,600 men. A lot of those guys have been there. Like, "Hey, what's some good things to do?" and have some...
What I want you to do is take the cognitive load off of her and show her that you are stepping up and taking a leadership role.
Here's a frame that might help, because sometimes frames are better than specifics. If you and I went into business together today, Andy name any business in the world and I sat on my hands and made you do all the work, would you be happy with that business partnership?
Andy 12:46No, not at all.
Doug Holt 12:49Get where I'm going with this?
Andy 12:51Yes, gotcha 100%, I see it.
Doug Holt 12:54Yep. And so, if I was that business partner that you showed up to the office and I was like, "Andy, I got this done, this done. I know that our business is coming, so I'm planning for three months from now. And here's what I think we should do, and here's where we're gonna go," that would be a business partnership. You're like, "Dude, this Doug guy... like, let's go! This is the best idea I've ever had."
Andy 13:13Right. Makes sense. Gotcha. Thank you.
Doug Holt 13:17Awesome, brother. Thank you.
Andy 13:19I just want to say, please thank your wife for me for always giving the female perspective on the podcast, because those have been amazing. Those really help me see things better.
Doug Holt 13:27Awesome, man! You just made her day, which consequently will make my day. So I appreciate that; I'll pass that on to her. All right, thanks, buddy.
Thank you, Mr. Brandon Alexander.
Brandon 13:37Morning, Doug. How are you?
Doug Holt 13:38Doing great, buddy. Good to see you.
Brandon 13:40Awesome. I'm sitting on my sailboat that some guy gave me at Camp Pendleton about a month ago, so I'm really blessed.
Like, question for you, Doug, is: you know my story, and that I thrive in the chaos. It's something that I've always performed well in. But my life is really coming back together, and it was necessary to strip that old version which, you know, part of my outside world reflected that.
But learning to thrive in the peace, you know, like us as alpha males, I think that's something we struggle with. And it's something that, as I'm settling into this, learning to do that properly... so anything that you could give me on that as I'm doing it, to accept that to be an okay reality? Because I think sometimes we need that chaos to justify who we are, if that makes sense.
Doug Holt 14:31No, it makes complete sense. So, kind of rapid fire here, Brandon: chaos means what? What does chaos mean to you?
Brandon 14:41Well, for the old, old life, it was purpose, because in that chaos, I got to perform, and that's where I shine.
Doug Holt 14:49Perfect, okay. In the current life, chaos equals...
Brandon 14:54Instability.
Doug Holt 14:56Okay. Peace equals...
Brandon 14:58Purpose.
Doug Holt 15:00So what we get to do in this situation, Brandon and I can relate to this so, so well. I mean, when I first read The Surrender Experiment, I wanted to throw that book out the window. It's like I'm still battling with it, but the idea is we get to drop the stories, right, and then write a new story.
So when we have an identity attached to an old story like "I just perform so well in chaos, that's what alpha males do" that is a really good story, and one that served Brandon 1.0 really well, right? Probably literally saved your life in many situations. Knowing your story, Brandon 2.0... it's not. It's creating instability. It's causing him problems.
So we get to rewrite what does peace mean for Brandon 2.0, and you have a great answer, right? You've just really replaced the two terms, and what we get to do is link them together, right? Because you're in the right place, and then we get to describe what does peace look like.
And I think that's where most guys get lost, because they have somebody else's version of what peace looks like, and it doesn't fit with what's working and what's not working. So for me, for an example, I'll use myself and Tim Matthews, since you know both of us really well, and I know Tim really well. For Tim, he can sit in a chair and be just content sitting there. That drives me nuts! Like, that is not peace for me, right?
Peace for me is doing a walking meditation kinetic. My nervous system calms down when I go for a walk in the woods. My nervous system calms down when I'm just having a great conversation with a good friend. Sitting in a chair by myself or just sitting on the couch not for me. That's not my version of peace.
And when I try to force myself into that container or into that version, that's when chaos starts to bubble up for me, and things start to go awry. So what I'm going to encourage you to do is redefine peace and what that looks like for you, and look and see, when you talk about it, is there any tension coming up for you?
Because peace is one of those things... it's kind of like, "I want to be happy." Well, great. What's happiness? What does happiness look like? How do you know when you're happy? Are you always going to be happy? No. People who are always happy... we commit those people, right? They go to insane asylums, because you can't always be happy, and you probably can't always be peaceful. Maybe you can, I don't know.
I'm not always peaceful. I carry a lot of peace in my life, and the way I define peace, probably the nuances are going to be different than the way that Brandon defines peace. Doesn't make mine better, doesn't make mine worse it's just for Doug. And I think knowing your story, my friend, you get to get into the details of what peace is for Brandon and what it looks like. Does that make sense?
Brandon 18:12It does. It's just... and it's getting there. I guess the fine-tuning piece is when you get into those really deep parts of yourself, you know. There's a book that I just finished up by Adam Young, Understanding Our Stories, and it's cool because what you do is you eliminate all those false narratives to get to your real one, and it's been a powerful experience for me to go through.
But things have really, you know, shifted really well. Like, I mean, at work, I went from being the newest-hired guy that... a year later, they just put me in charge with all the teams and everything. And then surprise...
Doug Holt 18:46Is that a surprise?
Brandon 18:46I mean, compared to where I was three years ago, it's absolutely a miracle, the things that have happened. But it's also recognizing those fearful moments of returning to 1.0, I guess, is it, too, and being okay with that.
Doug Holt 19:03That's it, buddy, right there. It's the fear of returning that is latching you to the old story. So because you are not living in Brandon 2.0 quite as solidly as you could yet, because if you were, there would be no fear of going to 1.0, because that's just not what you do, right?
We talk about the idea of standards. We all have standards, right? And we get to decide what our standards are and how we're going to play those standards. Like, what are those standards for you?
One thing that I'll give you... so shadow work is a great way of doing this, Brandon. And then also a fun one that I have guys do: I want you to get to the nuances of what peace looks like for Brandon, and have it so nuanced that Andy who we were just talking to can pick up that paper like a script, and he can act that scene out, and it'd be just what Brandon would do in peace.
And my gut tells me you haven't quite got there yet to that nuance of those details, and that's great. That's fine.
Brandon 20:06No, that's great stuff, Doug, I appreciate it. And it's interesting, because you talked about The Surrender Experiment. So I'm in the middle of writing whatever you want to call it a book, a memoir. I don't know whether I will publish it maybe small circles but mine is The War with Surrender, because that's kind of been the version of the identity that I've been fighting and working with. Because that's really it: it's like we have this inner war with surrendering our old selves to who we're supposed to become. So thanks, appreciate it.
Doug Holt 20:35You got it, brother. I'd love to get a copy of that book when it comes out; I'll buy one.
Brandon 20:38You'll be the first, I promise you that.
Doug Holt 20:40All right, cool. Awesome, gentlemen. Who else has something?
Chris 20:44Hey man, good to see you all. See some new faces here.
So, going through The Activation Method, brother, I've learned so much. Life is great. Just a few little fine-tune things.
So, my wife and I, our relationship's really good. We've worked through a lot of stuff, but she is prone to just sometimes just uncontrolled anger just over stuff. So, looking through, what am I doing to contribute to that? You know, the things that I can identify are, you know... maybe I don't get my socks picked up, maybe I don't load the dishwasher right. You know, really ask her, "Like, are there things underlying this?" Because she will twist off over the littlest things.
Now, if the anger is directed at... you know, the vacuum cleaner is not working or the dishwasher's not working, I'm like, "I'm here for that. I'm here to, you know, help you hear about your anger." But sometimes she'll be mad at one thing, and then just direct everything right at me. And so...
Doug Holt 21:52I want to buy you a gift. Look, if your marriage is struggling and let's be real, every marriage struggles at some point, but yours is struggling where you've lost that love, admiration, respect I want to help you. I want to buy you a copy of the book that I wrote, A Man's Guide on How to Save Your Marriage Without Talking About It. In here, I've distilled over eight years of programs that we've developed at TPM to help men just like you save their marriages without talking about it. There's no fluff, no BS. It's an action plan that you can start using today to actually save your marriage and bring that love and respect back into your family, back into your house. You deserve it. Look, all I ask is you pay the postage, you pay the shipping. I'll buy the book for you. That way, you can take massive action today. Click the link or find it in the bio and get your copy now.
Chris 22:45I've used all The Hidden Motives Technique. I've really tried to dig in, tried to look at everything objectively. But she's... she's like a rapidly adapting thing. Like when I use the things that used to work, she's like, "Oh, don't patronize me. Don't do that."
So I want to be here for her, but at the same time, also, like, nobody gets to treat me that way. Nobody gets to just beat on me because I'm standing here. So what... what wisdom would you offer me up for a situation like that?
Doug Holt 23:23First, let me share a story, and then I'll come back to it.
So, I was on a call with a guy in the Inner Circle. The Inner Circle is our higher-level mastermind group I know you know that, but for everybody else. And he had a horrible day at work, man. What could go wrong... like, million-dollar projects just went out the window, and he just bought this new house the dream house.
He walks in the door, and his wife just lays into him: "You didn't hang the TV right. This is wrong. This is wrong." And she's just laying into him. Now, meanwhile, he's had probably one of the worst days in business in the past decade. Like, you know, and every other man... he said his Version 1.0 would have just laid into her: "Sell the house, I'm out of here."
And he sat there and just listened to her, and used The Hidden Motives Technique, but empathy, and tried to get to the bottom of it. And okay, took it in, and as he kept on asking her more questions about what was going on for her, it turned out that she was really scared. His mom was visiting, and his mom would judge her that was her real underlying fear. She didn't know it, but because he stayed so steady, Chris, and unflappable in the storm in her storm and just kept asking questions from a place of curiosity, genuine curiosity, he was able to help her shine a light on what the real issue was, and that turned into an incredible, connected moment for him.
And it was a revelation for him, right? And he's been in the program for four years, and he's like, "Man, can you guys put this in a pill so I get it quicker next time?" Well, we've all felt that way, right?
And I know you're doing these things all the things that I mentioned. I know you well enough to know that you are an unflappable guy. You are a lighthouse. And where I would be in the inquiry for you is: how is that showing up for her, right? Are you being emotionally available when you're in that state of inquiry, trying to figure out what's going on?
Because what I'm hearing you say is, "Hey, if it's the dishwasher, I'm here for that." And my guess, knowing you, is you're here for it because you can fix the dishwasher issue, right? That is not necessarily what she wants. She has an emotional response of anger. She may just want you someone to hear her.
Now, you are the closest person, just like this guy was when he walked in the house. You are a safe person, so you will get the attack coming to you, because she doesn't have, in that moment, the emotional wherewithal to control that emotion or channel it properly.
So this is your opportunity to practice that lighthouse moment. A lighthouse doesn't jump off the cliff, grab the boats, and bring them into the harbor, but a lighthouse just keeps shining bright regardless of sunshine or the storm.
My question to you, or the inquiry and you might have this answer right away, "No, Doug, I've nailed it" is: how is that being received from her? If I was talking to her and said, "Hey, you know, when you get angry and Chris comes up to you, does he feel... does he feel emotionally available? Does he feel curious about what's going on, or is he more analytical, defensive in his head? What's occurring for you?" What do you think she'd say?
Chris 26:53I think she would say eight out of 10 times he's grounded. He's he's there for me. He absorbs my anger, and then when I figure out it's really not his fault that it's something going on with me, I I love him even more because he withstood it. Two out of 10 times, if you know he reacts, and you know he's probably had enough, and he feels like he needs to throw an elbow to, you know, get me to keep from, you know, whipping him just because he's there.
Doug Holt 27:27Awesome. So 20% of the time you get you get knocked off off-kilter. No worries, man. That's that's still great odds. 80% of the time you get a B, right? And that's good.
What I would consider doing also, my friend, is during good times, when things are really good, come up to her and say, "Hey, you know, sometimes I notice that I can let my emotions and you can let your emotions get the better of us. So, us as a couple, how do we want to handle that when that happens?"
And start coming up with a strategy to be proactive. We have guys that come into the program... obviously, divorce papers are on the table. We have guys that come into the program, go, "Hey, my marriage is good, but I want it to be great." When times are good with your wife, I want you to do the work then.
Chris 28:16That's that's a great point, because that's not something... if it's not on fire, I'm not doing anything with it. So that's that's the 5-degree course correction that I came here looking for. I appreciate that, man.
Doug Holt 28:30You got it, brother. Great to see you, man. Good to see you. Take care, Andy.
Andy 28:35Good morning.
Doug Holt 28:36Good morning. What's happening, my friend?
Andy 28:38Living the dream.
Good. So, my question is and I know probably the thing I haven't... you know, you know my story and everything that's gone on, and what I haven't seen on TPM is like, once you're through the divorce, how to like date successfully. Now that I'm out of the house and we're close to being... you know, we've been living together separated for nine months. We should be divorced in the next 30 days, hopefully. Living in my own place, starting to date again.
Gone on a few dates, and I know I'm I'm listening a lot more, collecting berries a lot more, letting them drive the... not to say drive the conversation, but, you know, more interested in them than telling my side and just responding. Any other advice you'd give to a brother who's just starting dating again after 15 years?
Doug Holt 29:28I mean, it's a lot. It's a big question, buddy. We could do a whole masterclass. Are you in in the community? There is a group called "The Next Chapter." Are you in that group in the community?
Okay, seek that out. We created a community for men that are single, separated, newly divorced, and so you'll find a lot of great resources in there from guys that are in the trenches. We put resources in there for those guys more than I'm going to be able to give you in a three-to-five-minute retort.
The one thing that I see that's incredibly important is to sit down and you may have done this, Andy write down what kind of marriage you want to be in, or what kind of relationship you want to be in. What is that ideal? And then I want you to write down: who is the ideal woman in that relationship? How does she show up? What does she like?
And more importantly, or the most important, is: who are you in that relationship? So to have this ideal woman, to have this ideal relationship, who does Andy have to be?
Because a lot of times I see guys go, "Well, no, I know who I want, Doug." Then I'll ask them, and it's so generic that you could... cool, you just want an attractive woman who's nice. Got it. You know, because you've been beaten down for so many years.
Now I want you to get granular, get really detail-oriented, like you would with your business. Like, "Okay, this is what I want. These, this is the goals. This is what I'll settle for," which is nothing, right? "This is what I want."
And when I've done that, Andy, and I say, "Okay, who's the woman to step in? What are all her qualities?" And he'll list them, and there are a lot. Guys are really good at this part of, "This is what I want." Great.
Let me ask you an honest question make it up, Jim: Are you the type of man that is going to attract and keep this woman, yes or no? And a lot of times, Andy it's not going to be your case, but a lot of times, men are like, "Oh, actually, I got some stuff to do. I got got a few things. I'm I'm swinging a little high."
And so that helps you. And the reason that helps you in the dating scene is because that gives you confidence in knowing what you want, which is very sexy to women, to feminine energy. It puts you more in the driver's seat.
What I want you to watch out for, because I know you pretty well, is making sure you don't slip into "nice guy" mode while dating.
Andy 31:55I can see that happening, yep.
Doug Holt 31:58It's very easy to go back to that old default: "I want them to like me. I'm a nice guy. I want them to know that they're safe." All of these things that go through it.
I want you to recreate that and go, "Hey, safety is just a given with Andy emotionally, physically, just a given." So we're not even going to try to bring it it's just there. She can feel that difference. Andy is a great guy; he doesn't have to be a nice guy or prove that he's a nice guy, because he already is a great guy.
So we don't want to do that; she'll smell the difference. There's a difference in you being in your core of who you are authentically versus putting on the masks when you go out and date, and it's so tempting, right? You're going to date, you want to dress a little nicer, you want to show her, you know, show a good time all of those things that we check off.
What I would encourage you to do, and what I see a lot of guys who are successful do, is be unapologetically, authentically you, because at the end of the day, she's going to figure out who that is. And you might as well have it in the first 10, 15 minutes so you can filter through the ones that like that guy, and filter through the ones that may not.
And it's okay for them not to like you. It has nothing to do with you; it's a reflection of them. We go out to a restaurant: you may love the dish, and I may not like it. You won't take it personally.
So stick to the same thing with you: "Hey, it's all good. I wasn't her flavor of the dish. Not a big deal, let's move on."
But really get clear, Andy, on what it is you want in a relationship. Very clear on what woman you want, and who she gets to show up as, and who you get to show up as, and filter out aggressively. You don't owe anybody a second date. It's not your requirement. Just because you took them on a first date, don't feel obligated to go on that second one.
Andy 33:55I'm going to say, as much as I'm picking her, she's got to, you know... or as much as I want her to pick me, or not pick me, but you know, I got to make sure I want to be part of that and not just, "Oh, she's cute," stuff like that. So I'm realizing that I need to just show up as me, like you talked about.
Doug Holt 34:10So, I've hired a ton of people in my business career. I'm sure you've hired people before. Who's in the driver's seat during the interview?
Andy 34:20The person hiring, usually.
Doug Holt 34:22You're hiring. You're not waiting for her to pick you; you're deciding whether she's worth your time. You're the prize, you're the gift, right?
And keep that mentality not from an egoic stance or "I'm better than you" or any of that BS, but from an authentic, "Hey, I'm going places. I'm doing big things in the world," because I know you are, Andy, right? And are you worthy of the passenger seat of this of this life with me?
That's all I'm vetting for. No harm, no foul. Hundreds of millions of available women out there, I'm just looking for the one. And right now, the dating process is me just weeding through this. I'm going to have fun along the way, and I'm going to take care of you, and I'm going to be a gentleman and all the things I know you would do anyway, Andy. But I'm interviewing right now: Do you meet the criteria?
That'll flip the script. That also has good polarity, right, in that mentality? And you need polarity, as you know, and it puts you in the driver's seat. Invite her into your world, into your fantasy. That's fun for feminine energy. If you're asking her just questions about her, it becomes like an interview. You're getting in her fantasy, in her world, and it's just not as fun. Everybody does that.
Andy 35:43I love it.
Doug Holt 35:44Awesome, buddy. So look for the community, "The Next Chapter," in the private app, and there's some good information in there as well as some stuff about getting back into dating and information that I think could be helpful for you, buddy.
Andy 35:58I appreciate it, Doug. And just an FYI, for that little company you pushed me to start, it's exploding, and we're going to go to our second and third locations here in the next six months. So...
Doug Holt 36:10I love it, man! That just made my day awesome, awesome! Send me a picture of you at one of the locations.
Andy 36:18I can do that.
Doug Holt 36:19Cool, that'd be fun for me. Awesome, brother. Good to see you, man. Take care.
All right, Gordon.
Gordon 36:24How we doing, sir?
Doug Holt 36:25I'm doing well. How are you?
Gordon 36:27Doing wonderful.
Doug Holt 36:28Good.
Gordon 36:30I'm running into something that is probably very usual, but unique to me. My wife and I have ended up in the best place we've been in in years, and I kind of put business aside, put everything aside, focused a lot on her and the relationship, and everything is really, really good.
But as business starts to pick up and I start to refocus, I'm concerned, in 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever this is: how do you find a new life balance that creates and keeps the energy and still allows me to focus on what I'm doing?
So, like, I've got a real estate portfolio I'm working on right now that's just sucked the life out of me, and I find her distancing herself because I'm not giving her the same attention as when I was there every day. We still do date nights and stuff, but we're both exhausted, and I find myself coming home and falling asleep randomly and doing stuff because I'm up all night thinking about working on this. How do you find a new life balance after you get back into a good position, and not let it fall apart again?
Doug Holt 37:57Great question. First of all, awesome to hear that your marriage is going so well, Ben. Way to do the work, buddy. I'm sure your wife's thanking you, too.
Gordon 38:06She's thanking you. My wife actually made this comment I have to say this. She said when I joined this group, she had all of her doubts, and after being in it for as long as I have, she absolutely believes it's what changed our lives.
Doug Holt 38:25Awesome, man.
Gordon 38:25So, just so you can hear that.
Doug Holt 38:27Thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.
To answer your question: don't think of it as balance. Think of it as prioritization.
Okay, so what do I mean by that? I think there's different seasons for different things, and right now you're in a season that you've chosen to allocate more time to work. That time has to come out of something, and it's happening to come out of your relationship, right?
So a key thing and we may be late on this, but we can catch up to it is approaching your wife, sitting down, and having a conversation with her: "Hey babe, I got this real estate portfolio opportunity that's coming up. This is going to require a lot more of my time, energy, and dedication. Are we good with this?"
What I used to do, Gordon, is I'd be like, "We're good." Oh, cool! Right now, I have an opportunity for an AI business. Cool, it's a lot of my time; I have to travel. I would get excited, I'd sign off on it. "This is going to help my family, my wife, etc., etc." And then all of a sudden, I'd be gone all the time, working my butt off, no energy for my wife, and then we'd get in a fight.
This was a long time ago, though. This AI opportunity is today, but just to give you a scenario, this is not happening this way. My wife would say, "You're always gone," and I would say, "Well, I'm building this all for you and our family!" And you know what she said to me, Gordon? "I never asked you to. You're doing this for yourself."
Gordon 40:00I was like, right... The other night, laying in bed, I just curled up to her and literally told her I made a decision to walk away from a $1.5 million portfolio. There were some fourplexes and duplexes, because I knew it was going to consume and it had been consuming too much of our time.
And it was interesting because then it came back around, and I got caught in the middle of it again. And I'm sitting here going, "I got to get this figured out," because, I mean, all the time that she used to spend talking to me, now I'm talking to Claude and trying to work through scenarios and forecasting and doing all kinds of stuff that is not normal or it hasn't been the normal lately.
Doug Holt 40:47So this is how I would approach it. So I'll go back to the balance, but I think the real thing here is: you're okay with the balance, right, but it's having a negative effect on the relationship? Is that a fair statement? You're okay with the workload.
Gordon 41:02I'm okay with the workload, but what's funny is she's okay with what money we have, and I'm too driven to stop where I'm at.
Doug Holt 41:10And that's okay, right? That's okay. Me, too, right? And it's not about the money for me it's about the man I become on my way to acquiring the wealth.
Gordon 41:20It's about the hunt.
Doug Holt 41:22100%. So this is kind of what I said earlier: call out the elephant in the room. She knows what's going on. The problem for her, she's like, "Shit, I've seen this movie before. It doesn't end well."
So call it out: "Hey babe, you know, this real estate deal has taken so much more of my time and energy, and I just want to let you know that you're the priority here. If I continue down this road, this is what it looks like, and my next move is to make sure I don't get in this position again."
Call it out, so at least she knows you have the emotional intelligence, that you have the awareness of the situation, rather than trying to brush it under the rug or not talk about it as it affects [her].
Gordon 42:08Well, the problem that I'm having is we've kind of gone down that road, but I'm like an addict. I mean, when I get one of these deals, I just can't let it go, and I'm going to figure it out, and so I end up putting too much time into it, just like any crack addict. It just is what it is.
Doug Holt 42:27
But guess what, Gordon? She knows.
Gordon 42:35She didn't like that guy.
Doug Holt 42:37Well, she married the guy! I joke with my wife all the time. I'm a serial entrepreneur, right? I love it. I enjoy work, I enjoy problem-solving.
And my wife will say something... she's like, "Oh, you're crazy, down there in the office 12 hours a day."
I was like, "I'm crazy? You knew this when you married me! Who's the crazy one, right?"
And I'll just joke with her, and it lightens up the mood. But you might want to talk to her about, "Hey, this is a season we're in right now," and bring her into collaboration. That's where I'm really trying to get to for you: how do you bring her into this? What do we want for the next season?
And she's going to tell you... go look: "I'm like a crack addict when it comes to these businesses," and laugh, be light about it. She might laugh, she might push back.
Go, "How can we do this together where I get to be on the hunt? Because, babe, I'll tell you what: the only thing I want to change and go out and hunt is business. I'm not out there hunting women you're the one I want. This is the hunt I want to do. Guys are out there hunting women and trying to get new... that's not me. I'm not trying to do that. This is my hunt. I'm a hunter."
Bring her into collaboration and into the story of it. You're not committing to anything you don't want to do, but you are doing something you probably haven't done as much, I'm going to guess, which is including her, right?
Gordon 43:58Trying, but she doesn't understand business. She tries...
Doug Holt 44:02No, no, and nor should she. Don't include her in the business. She doesn't care. Include her in how the choices affect her. Include her in the planning portion.
I don't tell my wife day-to-day what I'm doing. I don't include her in all of this stuff. I clue her into the excitement, you know. "Hey, I'm coming down, I'm going to do a live call with the guys." She's like, "Oh, watch out guys," because she knows some of you guys, right? And I'm like, "Oh, it's just a group of guys, open call, it's going to be a ton of fun. I'm going to be down there. I have a meeting with lawyers right after this, tax attorneys not exactly the most exciting meeting, I'd rather be here."
I tell her that kind of stuff. What's exciting about it? "Hey, I have an opportunity to go to New York to meet a couple of the guys, but let's talk about how this could affect the family." That's the kind of stuff I bring her into.
I don't say, "Can I go to New York?" I say, "I have an opportunity to go to New York. Here's what it is. Let's talk about how that affects you and the kids." That's the conversation.
Gordon 45:03You gave me some stuff now to have a dinner conversation about. Appreciate it.
Doug Holt 45:09You got it, Gordon. Awesome. Tell your wife hi for me, please.
Gordon 45:11I will.
Hey, Brian. Love you, man.
Brian 45:15Hey, I just wanted to add something that Andy, my coach, said to me this week. As things change now, Janet's retired from Microsoft, and she has all this other energy. And I've been one to reject help and also not involve her in a lot of stuff, mostly because she was so, so busy, and I was fine.
Kind of when Doug was talking about what Andy said to me is: accept her help like a queen trying to support her king, because right now she's trying to be useful to you, and she sees that she can take stuff off your plate. And maybe that's not the business stuff that your wife can do for you, but there may be other stuff on your plate.
Because the conversation started with me saying, "I want to simplify, but I'm overcommitted when I look at all the hours of the week." And Andy was like, "Maybe there's something she can take on now. So accept her help like a queen supporting her king."
Gordon 46:14Just so you both laugh, my wife's a CPA, and I'm in real estate, so our opinions of everything are completely polar opposite.
Doug Holt 46:28\Awesome! I hate being around people that disagree with me, because I already know what I know. How lucky you are! I think that's sweet.
I think that's great advice, Brian. I love that. Shout out to Andy. Andy's an amazing coach, I love Andy.
And, you know, I think it's really, guys... for a lot of us, it's just having the conversation, right? Partnership. I was just filming a segment for The Activated Couple course that's coming out in September. I was filming it yesterday here, and the concept I was filming and landing on was: how do we look at our relationship, our marriage, our partnership like a business partnership? Because I'm talking to a bunch of you frigging business guys, right? You guys will get this that's all you think about.
And what I was saying earlier is: look, how do you take the cognitive load off of her? What do you divide and conquer within the house? Is she cooking dinner? Okay, well, she's not just cooking dinner; she's got to plan the dinner first. She's got to think about the dinner, she's got to plan it, then she's got to go get the groceries and do the shopping and everything else that needs dinner, then she's got to cook the dinner and maybe clean, but she's also got to consider what other people want. There's a lot in that. Cool, she owns it.
What are you owning? And maybe it's just the business stuff. And maybe she consults you as her partner on the dinner, and you allow her to consult on the business.
But the thing that I hear all the time and my wife, as you know, coaches a lot of the women, of the other wives is the women are so exhausted because of the lack of help with the cognitive load in the house. And if you are exhausted, you are not going to have desire. That goes for you, too, Gordon.
Gordon 48:23Oh, right.
Doug Holt 48:24The laptop's open on the bed rather than something else being open, and so you want to make sure that you are freeing your wife's mental load up.
And so if she's worried, "There goes Gordon again, that guy's on another frigging safari hunting out there," but if you call it out and you make it light and fun, then she's not going to worry about it. Cool, he's aware, he knows he's got this. And I'm not saying you're doing this, Gordon I'm speaking to the other guys who filtered into the wrong lens.
Gordon 49:01No, man. I'll give you one more comment to laugh about.
So I taught my wife that Claude could help her do dinner menus for the week. So now Claude does her dinner menu, writes her grocery list, and she just swings and picks it up, and looks at her phone while she's cooking dinner, and just laughs now.
So my wife is finally starting to get into AI, and I taught her how to use some different apps for doing some of her work. It's been a lot of fun. But anyways, I'm going to quit talking.
Doug Holt 49:34Don't lie to us, Gordon! No, you always have great things to say, man. I always enjoy our conversations as you go through.
But what I want to leave you guys with and I do have to go, it's a hard cutoff time for me is: what is the elephant in the room that you're not calling out, right? What is that thing that everybody knows, or at least your wife knows, that you're not flaring and owning, right?
So I'll use an example that's pretty common. I'll talk to a guy like, "Ah, you know, the weekend was great, but one time I lost it. I just lost it for a little bit, it was just that one time, Doug."
"Okay, did you clean it up?"
"Well, no, you know, it just wasn't the right time..."
And going, "Okay, well, it's Thursday. Have you cleaned it up yet?"
"Nah, it's past."
Go clean it up! Call out the elephant in the room. She knows you lost it, but what she doesn't know is if you know that you lost it and that's the big difference, guys.
Call out the elephant in the room, gentlemen. As always, I have an amazing time with you guys. Love you much. If there's anything I can do for you or the rest of the team, especially Ryan Peach, just let us know. We'll make sure it happens, guys. Make it a great week. Take care.
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