20 min read
Episode #988
What if the reason you’re burned out, disconnected, or stuck isn’t because you’re doing too much—but because you’re saying yes to all the wrong things?
Most high-achieving men are secretly overwhelmed. They’ve built successful businesses, provided for their families, and checked all the boxes… yet deep down, something feels off. In this episode, you’ll hear how one man’s struggle to say “no” led to decades of hidden pain, poor decisions, and relationships that never quite fit.
In this episode, you’ll hear a raw and powerful conversation between Tim Matthews, Mark Smith, and David Mason as they explore what happens when you stop hiding behind productivity and finally start honoring what you really want. They unpack how unresolved childhood trauma shows up in your “yes,” how saying no can feel dangerous when you were never taught it was safe—and how learning to say “yes” without a “but” can radically shift your business, marriage, and life.
You’ll also hear how David went from working 90-hour weeks to taking 3-day weekends—without losing momentum. And the surprising shift that made his business more successful while he finally felt at peace, connected, and fully alive.
If you’re ready to stop chasing validation and start leading with purpose, this is your episode.
Listen now. Your “yes” might be waiting.
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Transcription
David 0:00 Mm, you know. So at first I was thrilled that I got comfortable with, you know, being able to say yes and no in a healthy way. And as the work continued and as it got deeper, it was like, well, where do you want to continue to say yes, Dave? And as I answered those questions, then I started realizing I was putting the “but” behind it. Certain things need to continue to change, or I need to develop into an even more powerful man, or I had this list of really unattainable things for me to actually be the man that I desire to be. And so then the relationship started to change with the yes. I want that. Yes, that sounds amazing. Yes, let’s pursue that. I’m on board.
Tim Matthews 0:50 Welcome to another episode of The Powerful Man Show. I’m your host, Tim Matthews, joined with Mr. Mark Smith. Hello. Mr. David Mason. Hello. Take care. No doubt. I love it. I love it. We’ll dive into that more in a minute. So you and I were just having a really cool conversation, because this week is the first time you and I have met, right? Correct, in person. Yeah. You’ve been in the movement for a little while now, 18 months, yeah, so I’d say. But for one reason or another, we just seemed to miss one another, whether you went to a Brotherhood event and I didn’t, or whatever. So point being, this is the first time we’ve made sure they’re in person, which was fantastic. I’ve loved it, by the way, one more time with you. It’s incredible. You are an incredible guy, so smart, so funny. You’re just contagious. I want to spend more time around you, just to be clear. We’ll get to that later, but I appreciate that. Yeah. But the story you were sharing with me about your journey into TPM, I think that’s going to be a really cool topic for us to dive into, because I think there could be other guys out there that might resonate. So do you mind sharing?
David 2:10 Of course, of course. So about 24 months ago, in the summer of 2023, I was in a place of a lot of frustration. I was frustrated with my life partner. I was frustrated with my business partners. And more importantly, I was frustrated with me. And so I began searching because I knew there needed to be some type of outlet to be able to recognize what was going inside of me, being fed up with being fed up, if you will. And so, you know, searching one day, and I often wonder if I found TPM or The Powerful Man, or whether The Powerful Man found me. And it’s not just a neat saying to question that. It’s because when I came across a video of you sharing a little bit of your story, it really resonated with me. It wasn’t where I had to wonder, what’s this guy talking about? Where is this guy coming from? Can I trust him? It was right to the heart of the matter for me. And you shared this story of what would it be like to be sitting in a dining room and whatever topic comes up, but if my father asked me a question that I knew the answer was no to, first of all, would I say no? Secondly, what would happen if I said no? And then understanding that when I processed saying no, what did that emotion or what did that feel like raise inside of me? And right then it clicked. The frustration that I had been experiencing at that point was I felt like I had to fight or explain why I needed to say no. So I ended up in my life, in my adult life, saying yes to a lot of things that really were nos. And I was dealing with a deep-rooted fear, anger, and frustration about knowing in my heart that I should be saying no but saying yes. And when you shared that story, it resonated. This man gets me.
Tim Matthews 4:12 I get it, brother. Kindred spirit. I’m sure there are a lot of others out there as well, right? Yes. It’s interesting, because, you know, back then, when I used to— I was also afraid of saying no, as you realized. So I did say yes to things that were really a no because I was too scared of saying no, because of the consequences, which for me back then as a child really were either going to be physical violence or intimidation, both of which as a kid are terrifying, right? Because I just didn’t know which version of my father I was going to get. The environment I grew up in was a very unpredictable and very hostile one. I mean, Dad watches this show, and he and I have spoken about this I don’t know how many conversations, you know. But I also need to say what I need to say. So yeah, I witnessed a lot growing up. I was in a very— well, probably one of the best ways to put it is my sister left home at 13 because she had to get out of the environment she was in. I was seven years younger than her, so I was left kind of on my own, maybe six or seven years old. Her and I have spoken a lot, and she has apparently seen things and was witness to things that were a lot worse than I heard, although I witnessed some pretty bad things. But the point is, within the unpredictability of the environment, not knowing which version of my dad I was going to get, I was terrified of saying no to things because of the consequences. I then grew up and got into relationships that meant that I said yes to things that were very much a no. But equally, I also said no to things that were very much a yes. Because on the journey of saying yes to things that were a no, I was basically self-sacrificing myself and my own needs. And thus the internal subconscious conversation in that moment is, I don’t matter. My needs don’t matter to me. So therefore, when there was an opportunity for me to say yes to something that was going to be exciting for me or was going to be enjoyable for me, or whatever it may have been, I said no because I didn’t feel worthy or good enough of doing or having that thing. And look, just to say, this was all hidden behind a mask of success too, right? You know, nobody saw it. No, nobody saw it. Because one of the common themes of entrepreneurialism is it often comes from a trauma response, if you will, right? The drive and the need to prove and all of that stuff comes from the place of, I refuse to ever be in that position. Yeah. It produces some great results, right? So I had all this going on beneath the surface of growing at the time one of the UK’s fastest-growing fitness franchises within its particular niche. And seemingly everything was going well in my life, and I couldn’t quite pinpoint back then why it didn’t feel like it looked. And obviously now, in hindsight, looking back, a big piece of that was me saying yes to things that were really a no, which meant I got into a relationship I should never have been in, quite frankly. Ended up proposing, getting the house, all that kind of stuff when I knew it wasn’t the right thing to do. I got robbed of tens of thousands in a business deal I should never have gone into. But I went into it out of neediness and desperation, even though, again, I knew it was the wrong thing to do because I didn’t trust myself. I didn’t listen to myself. And then as a result, because of such a low self-esteem behind the image of confidence and bravado and all the rest of it, like I said, I then said no to things that were really a yes, the things I really wanted to do, like have the kind of relationship I wanted to have or take bigger risks or whatever it may be. They were all a no. Yeah. To say really, it’s like this purgatory, right? You’re saying yes to the things you don’t want to do, no to the things you do want to do, and just end up trapped in this existential no-man’s land where I was terrified of saying no. Because as I’ve done the work on it now and look back and realize that saying no meant physical harm, which as a child meant I couldn’t control. So it’s how far does that harm go? And as I peeled it back, what that equates to is saying no equals death, ultimately, right? Or the fear of it. Yeah, right. But I love that you sat here, right? Because we share very similar journeys. I’ve never heard about it from your perspective with your upbringing, did you? Did you have something similar?
Mark 10:04 I'm resonating fully with what you're saying. And yeah, having been, frankly, sexually abused as a kid, right, I gave up my needs. I said yes because I was powerless to things that I shouldn't have and knew it was a no viscerally, you know, in my heart and soul it was a no. And I didn't have the advocacy or power to essentially stand up for myself. And same thing led to business deals where I lost tens of thousands, and I'm still owed about—yeah. Anyway, you know, you get the picture. So yeah, I resonate completely, fully with that.
Tim Matthews 10:47 So I also suffered sexual abuse as a kid. I've shared that with— I don't know if you knew that, but I've shared that with you before. Yeah, I think Mom and Dad know that. They listen to the show.
Mark 10:58 My mom and dad don't know this about me either.
Tim Matthews 11:02 Interestingly, as you said it, right, the inability to say no in the moment. Yeah. It was only once, twice I experienced it, but I remember feeling this doesn’t quite seem right. This—like I knew something was wrong, but I never said no. Yeah. All right. And I just think there’s a link between all these things for me. Back to you. So tell us a little bit more about what resonated with you then within the story you heard 20 months ago and what we're talking about now.
David 11:50 Well, to kind of cut to the chase, after I processed hearing your story and it really resonated, really grasped my heart—because it was yes, it logically made sense to me because I could relate to it, but I felt it as well. And so I asked myself, will I say yes to this? Will I allow myself to continue to seek the internal joy, to be able to process the information I was processing on a daily basis, to release the frustration? Basically, can I say yes to myself to give myself a fighting chance to catch my breath? And from the very first phone calls from the team, once I put that inquiry in, I knew I was amongst a group of people that saw me and could relate to me and were going to offer help, but not from a “do this and you’ll be okay.” It was more like, we’re going to come alongside you and show you the path that we’ve walked. And then if you’ll consider walking it, there is safety in this process, and there is freedom in this process, and we see you, Dave. And so on a real, genuine level, I thought it was a huge risk at the time of saying yes. And that’s turned into 18 months of— I don’t want to say a revitalized Dave, because I’m not sure if I was vitalized ever before this, but a rejuvenated, a now fully living being that can look at the options of, is this a yes? Is this a no? And which one gets me closer to who the genuine David Mason is instead of where does it allow me to avoid fear or avoid pain or to grasp approval? It had to do with, does it align with where David is going with his life? And having that kind of freedom to be able to truly make your own decisions is a freedom that— well, I haven’t found it anywhere else, to be honest with you. And it’s from within. And so The Powerful Man, through a loving process, through consistent coaching, has been able to share with me the keys that helped unlock their hearts and just presented it to me as an option. Would you like to try this in your life? And so it’s been quite the experience of learning techniques that logically either didn’t make sense or did make sense. But I’ve learned how to apply it in my heart with my passion and not just academically. And so it’s made quite an impact on my life.
Tim Matthews 14:36 It’s wild to consider how many entrepreneurs, executives, business owners struggle with this concept of saying no despite the successes they’ve built. Yeah, right? But it makes complete sense as to why they end up so stressed out, burnt out, disillusioned, right? Because in the process of not saying no, they just continue to take on more and more and more. And I get it. I was there. I thought I could outwork the problem. I thought if I just make enough money, or if I just do this, or when I have that, or whatever, all of a sudden I’d magically learn to, I guess, be someone that I always wanted to be. But obviously I was running the wrong race. I was never going to achieve that outcome through business success. But it’s wild, right? We see it all over the place. Yeah, it’s like an epidemic. Yeah, it really is.
Mark 15:47 Well, the thing is also that emotional pain is received by the brain the same way as physical pain, right? So what happens is we’re forced into a state of fight and flight. So when it comes to those decisions, a business is something to hide behind. Build that, and it’s a separate entity. It’s not me, so I don’t have to deal with that stuff. Distraction. Yeah, a lot, a lot of guys have been on that journey. Do you resonate with that?
David 16:19 I resonate with that, and it makes a lot of sense. Because when people would recognize and compliment the success of my business, I actually would recoil from that because I knew— not in as clear a way to articulate it like today— but I knew that the level at which I built my business and the success that the outward public saw was really a barometer of how much pain I was in, because I would hide behind it. I would pour my effort into it. I would distract myself with it. I’d work all those hours. And yes, it would be successful, and it would have all of the check marks of what success means. And so you go to some kind of function, or your family sees it, and they’re congratulating you on your pain.
Tim Matthews 17:01 So true. I was thinking the same thing. The more success, often it’s accompanied by more pain. How much pain can you handle and tolerate?
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Tim Matthews 18:05 What I'm really excited for about you and the other guys in the movement is I love how you guys redefine the journey. Because I’ve got to imagine, if I was putting myself in the position of the listeners back where I was, I think if I was hearing this, I'd be thinking, okay, so are you saying to me that I have to choose? Is it success or pain? Essentially, either eradicate my pain and therefore I can't be successful? Or how can I essentially have more success without the pain? And I love how you're on that journey, and we see so many men in the movement redefine that journey for themselves. And as a result, they often experience greater levels of success, both financial and otherwise, often with less pain, both personal and otherwise, and often by working fewer hours because they stop saying no to things they don't need to be doing. They become more inspired because they're more connected to themselves, which therefore means they have bigger ideas. And because they're more energized, they're able to act on those ideas and take bigger risks because they realize that their self-worth isn't tied to their net worth, essentially. And they're also having more fun in their life. So vibrationally, they're just in a way better state, and as a result, the journey completely changes.
David 19:41 Yes, it does. And what I find amazing is you don't know my story on this part, as far as that association of learning to say yes to me has actually resulted in greater success in my business—a tremendous amount more, much more success in my business. And just this quarter, I made an agreement with my business partner to, instead of working 80–90 hours a week, I'm now down to four days a week. So now we enjoy three-day weekends where we take different turns as far as what days off. So I'm working the least amount of hours I've ever worked with the greatest financial success I've ever had, with the biggest smile on my face.
Mark 20:23 The path of flow, brother.
David 20:27 And we've had an opportunity for me even to share that with you now till just now. And so as you described the impact of what it's had on many, many other men, I'm having chills right now because I didn't chase that. That's been the result of living the life that I've learned to live with healthy boundaries based on myself—not a boundary for others to respect about me, boundaries for me to respect about myself—and to get very sensitive and aware of what those are, and then to have the self-awareness to honor me and to respect myself and to learn to get comfortable with honoring myself. And so the result of being more comfortable with saying no to certain things and then getting comfortable saying yes to certain things has resulted in immense, not just financial success, but the spirit and the culture amongst my staff, because that is what's actually created the financial success—their ability to produce with much more efficiency. And what I mean by efficiency is being much more comfortable recognizing the flaws and capitalizing on the flaws into the wins. Because when we make an error, it's not a reflection on a devaluation of us. “Oh, you messed up, so you're worth less to the team.” No, you made an error, which means we can all become stronger because you're part of the team. And so we've adapted that win mentality and taken time to intentionally recognize the value of each one of us. And with everyone's conscious value mindset being elevated, they're just producing in a much more relaxed environment, a much more joyous environment. They're able to appreciate the results of it—that yes, on the P&L, the bottom line has quadrupled. It's not just 4% or 5%, which I would be thrilled with that. No, it's phenomenal to where my business partner is now very happy that I'm part of this, and he's encouraged me to continue this journey. I'm very happy because, yes, all of those things. But as I was thinking about it personally, I used to go to comedy shows looking for joy, to comedy clubs looking for the laughter. I used to go look for entertainment, whether it be a ball game somewhere or maybe a concert. And yes, in the moment, in those places, hanging out with my buddies, that's a fun time and I had a smile on my face. But then there's the 30-minute drive home afterwards. There's the quiet time at 10:00 PM when you're staring at the ceiling. And I'm grateful for my smile. I'm grateful that I have my smile back and I don't have to go hunting for it in some outside stimulus. It's an outward flowing of what's going on inside. And to be so appreciative of that outward evidence of what's taken place on the inside. Sure, I still enjoy a ball game. I still enjoy those types of things. But I enjoy me in those environments, not looking for those environments to fill me up like they used to. And so that's been an incredible experience. And, you know, as we're talking on the subject of yes or no, I found myself—maybe it's sometimes not even the starkest contrast of a yes or no—but for me, sometimes it was the “yes, but.” Yes, I want this, but—and I would come up with the stories of why this wasn't attainable or I wasn't worthy to even pursue it. And so to be able to understand, even to be aware and conscious of the “yes, but.” You know, at first I was thrilled that I got comfortable with being able to say yes and no in a healthy way. And as the work continued and as it got deeper, it was like, well, where do you want to continue to say yes, Dave? And as I answered those questions, then I started realizing I was putting the “but” behind it. Certain things need to continue to change, or I need to develop into an even more powerful man, or I had this list of really unattainable things for me to actually be the man that I desire to be. And so then the relationship started to change with the yes. I want that. Yes, that sounds amazing. Yes, let's pursue that. I'm on board.
Tim Matthews 25:05 Kind of like no is a complete sentence. So is yes.
Mark 25:09 My wife's favorite saying, really, is no is a complete sentence. You know, what inspires me about what you've just said is what that creates for you in terms of the relationships you have with either an intimate partner or children, grandchildren.
David 25:29 Yes. Because as I got clarity on why is there a “but,” and as I've been able to address the stories I put around what I truly want, as I process the “but” with it came the freedom to explore more of what yes is that I've already said no to without even realizing it. I haven't given myself permission, in other words, to dream that big. So when I first considered the yes and the nos, I had a very limited tunnel vision, and it was just a process for me to get used to considering the yes and no and what does Dave really want. Then as I got comfortable with that comparison and seeing the differences, then I was saying yes a lot. Yes, but. And as I've processed, well, what's really the no that I'm saying behind it? And once I got a good relationship with the no, I was realizing, yes, I want this, but what I really want is this. Yeah. And I started giving myself permission. And the buts came right with each one, because each one had its own limiting thought of why I either didn't deserve it, why I had not enough skills to attain it. All the limiting in the areas of abundance we talk about, you know, wealth being one of the aspects that we focus on—and not just financial wealth, but abundance of knowledge, abundance of skill, abundance of creativity. And so as I started getting a grasp, as I was coached along, of what abundance is really inside of me as a man, then the yeses got even bigger. And not so much that I was trying to attain something bigger, but the honesty became deeper and the belief in myself to really have permission to dream that big and to just take the step forward. And what I started learning is that I believed, as I believed in the yeses being bigger and I thought I understood what the outcome was going to be, it wasn't. It was when I took the first step, things I didn't know existed started opening up. When I took the second step, then there were new relationships with other businesses or other friendships or other relationships that I would have never crossed paths with if I was too scared to even allow myself the permission to even pursue this interest, whatever it was. And so what I have found is yes, I can go attain that vision and I can go attain that goal. But between point A and point B, there's a whole life to live. And that's what's been so life-changing to me. It's not just—I mean, it's all of it—but it's been the amazing doors, the amazing relationships, the amazing experiences, which really deepens the quality of life. It really deepens the flavor. And so I'm very appreciative of yes, learning how to say yes and learning how to recognize the yes buts. But as I've continued this process, what I didn't see coming was the journey between the two and how many doors have opened. That's what's been so rich about it for me. Yeah.
Mark 28:34 It's so incredible when you get out of your own way what is possible. And I think it's so useful from the perspective of the guys watching. You know, we put self health in relationships, and a lot of guys struggle with putting myself first. Are you kidding me? I've got all of these responsibilities, obligations, etc., and how do I possibly find the time to put me first? And a lot of guys say that. So what for you was the answer? Because you're a busy guy. What was the answer there?
David 29:04 As far as the challenge around understanding and learning that I needed to put me first, it was that whatever relationship that I desire to have with you, the level of the depth of relationship I can have with you or anyone else that I value is a reflection of the depth of relationship I already have with myself. Yeah. And so as I desired love, it was critically important that I learned how to love myself. Because I learned that, sure, I could stop developing myself now, and that was going to be at the level that I was able to see my children, at the same honesty that I could look at myself in the mirror. And so whether it's the relationships with the men in the movement, the relationships with my children, grandchildren, business partners, clients, those are at the same depth that I have with myself. And so when I desire to be more giving, to be more charitable, to be a more effective business partner, whatever my desires are, where I want me to show up, it is at a similar or same level of how much I've shown up for me. Yeah. So I've learned it's critical that I spend time with myself in the mornings to really ask myself, where do I get to say yes today? Because the more I can say yes to me in the right, healthy way, then I can tell my teams how to say yes. And then when they learn to say yes, then they learn to trust themselves. So as I learn to trust myself—and so it's really a reflection—is the level that I take care of myself, that I invest in me, that I spend time really getting to know where I'm at, where I'm going, and what's the motivation behind it. Then naturally, I don't have to work on remembering to call a loved one to say happy birthday. I don't have to remember to show the right kind of appreciation to a team member that really excelled. It's just naturally a bubbling-up energy because you've invested in yourself first. And so what really helped me get past this thought of it being selfish to invest in me, then I realized for me to really be the kind of business owner that I would really love to be, it requires me to spend the time with myself. Yeah. There is no shortcut when it comes to that. I also learned it's a lot easier, because I used to think that it's a very difficult, challenging thing to take care of myself, and so I think that's why I avoided it. And what I've learned is it's a lot more simple. Like just taking a deep breath, just spending time without the screens on, maybe turning some music on that really resonates and starts to soothe you, and just start slow like any other normal goal or other technique. Just start small. Don't put this perfection mindset that I've got to be this guru. No. Just learn to love yourself. Learn to take care of yourself. Learn to see yourself. Because out of that is how you take care of others and how you see others.
Mark 32:04 It's a wellspring, right?
David 32:05 Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. I don't know exactly when that clicked, but I will tell you that today, in my life now, I will have family members call me. I'll have staff members call me and say, “Dave, obviously you're still Dave. You look like the same guy, but you're not the same man. You have dramatically changed in how you speak to us, how you encourage us, how you face challenges, how you coach us.” And so I don't have to go out and ask, “Hey, am I a better friend to you?” They've actually been coming to me saying we see a difference and we'd like some of that. Yeah, you know? And so at that level, in a passing conversation or in that moment, this is where I usually give the advice of, well, let's start spending some time with you. Let's start taking care of ourselves. Yeah, you know? So that's how I kind of look at the idea of, is it selfish to put you first? Maybe to someone that that's a new idea to, sure, it sounds that way. We've been taught to put other people first. But the reality is it's actually critical if we want a full life, if we want an abundant life, if we want a satisfying life, to be able to be there for those that are important to us, to be able to be the one that someone can call at three o'clock in the morning. Well, can I call myself at three o'clock in the morning? Will I show up for me? Will I spend the time necessary for me in the times where I really need it? And sometimes that's uncomfortable. Yeah. But you know, so is lifting weights. There's resistance there, and you'll see a lot of guys at the gym voluntarily going with resistance, and then we'll still fight with the idea of just spending time looking at ourselves in the mirror, making eye contact, and saying, let's make today a yes day.
Tim Matthews 33:53 Love that. Let's make today a yes day. Yeah, I love that. So guys, as we like to say, in the moment of insight, take massive action. We'll see you next time on The Powerful Man Show.
